Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

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DrJJWMac
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Re: Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

Post by DrJJWMac »

The reference by @lyndondrake to the view provided by Devonthink is useful. Keeping a consistent framework in Bookends might be another reason to stay with the horizontal view rather than the vertical view.

I prefer not having boxes of any kind around text fields. This approach distorts my ability to scan over the entire pane to read the text as a continuous flow. By analogy, when I go to read the pane in Devonthink (with boxed text fields), my mind starts behaving as thought it has to "step into this box" then "read its contents" then "step out of this box" then "go to the next box" then "step into this box" then ...
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JJW
Philologist
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Re: Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

Post by Philologist »

I'm also happy with the restructuring of the reference pane in version 14.0.4 It's a great improvement!

The "horizontal" pane is clearly structured and gives a good overall view of the fields, allowing me to see all relevant details at a glance.
The "problem" with long custom labels which somebody mentioned is simply to have them shorter. I call my original language title "OrigLang Title," which is clear and unambiguous, instead of "Original language title."
Jon wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:47 pm some […] have also asked that the labels appear above the text field.
I think that's a bad idea, mainly because the current setup allows a clear and optimal view of every field, be it empty or not. When labels appear above the text field it looks a bit cluttered in my eyes. An optimal solution would be to provide settings for both in the preferences and allow the user to pick the one he or she likes best.
Jon wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:47 pm In the next update we're adding "hint" text in empty fields, which softens the look a bit.
I personally would find it better to have no "hint" text in empty fields, because then I immediately see whether a field is empty or not. Empty fields should remain empty (like in EndNote, if I remember right.) But if some people find that too glaring and want some light gray text to "soften the look", I guess I'm OK with that.
Jon wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:36 am I think having invisible empty fields that only open when you click on its label or tab to it might make one feel lost.
I agree. And perhaps most importantly, I want to see at a glance if I forgot to add an important piece of information, such as the original language title or when a book was first published. Before v14.0.4 with the new pane I was already tired of always having to switch from the Main to the Additional Fields pane when I import new books. Usually not all information I need about a book is contained in online library catalogues, so I need to add them manually.
So the bottom line is, I'm very happy with the new pane.
iandol
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Re: Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

Post by iandol »

Philologist wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:55 am I personally would find it better to have no "hint" text in empty fields, because then I immediately see whether a field is empty or not.
I would also prefer this to be honest, I'm not sure what problem the hint aims to solve, is this pure aesthetics?
Jon
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Re: Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

Post by Jon »

Well, I had one very upset person write to me about how horrible it was to not have some visual guides, just a lot of empty space. And looking back, both Papers and Sente used hints as well (EndNote has gray boxed empty fields, which work too, but I think are less elegant). I suggest you evaluate the UI again after the next update is released. I've gotten used to the hints and actually like them. I could make them a lighter gray if people think they catch the eye too much. YCPE (you can't please everyone).

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Maximus
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Re: Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

Post by Maximus »

Thank you very much for your work, Jon!
And I vote for the current (horizontal) view. It looks great after the update.
martinjp
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Re: Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

Post by martinjp »

Is there any reason why, when working on a pdf, the keyboard shortcuts couldn't continue to work to create a notecard, a pdf note, and simply to copy text? I have used them for a long time to put data into the reference pane. But now a clickable menu pops up instead. My motor memory tends to type the keys, and then I have to stop and look for the popup menu. Usually it pops up more slowly than I can type (on my old Macbook Air), so there is a frustrating wait.

Any chance the popup menu and keyboard shortcuts could run in parallel?
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Re: Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

Post by Jon »

The keyboard shortcuts are for menu items. The menu items are gone, and therefore so are the shortcuts. Command-C already works (there is a corresponding menu item), but doesn't dismiss the popover. As noted in another thread, in the next update it will do that.

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martinjp
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Re: Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

Post by martinjp »

Yes, I read the thread on cmd-C after I had posted here. The problems which that poster has with cmd-C are similar to the problems I am having with (as I recall) cmd-shift-M. Muscle memory; waiting for the popup to appear... I had no idea that cmd-C still works, because I type it before the popup appears and it only works once the popup is in place.

And if cmd-C can still exist, even though there is no menu equivalent (except way up in the main window Edit menu), why not the others too?

To be honest, I would prefer to return to the menu items and say goodbye to the popup menu. Or might there be a way to turn off the popoff in preferences?
Jon
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Re: Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

Post by Jon »

There would be no way to discover the shortcuts other than reading the fine print in the user guide. This is not how the Mac UI works. Command-C exists *because* there is a menu with that function, and the obsolete menu items in the Action pop-up are not coming back. I think the popover is a vast improvement, and from the feedback I've gotten so do most. Whenever there is a change in the UI there are always some who dislike it because they're comfortable with the old, no matter how much better the new is. I'm taking the time to have this discussion to point out why those menu items and shortcuts were removed so you understand. I'm sorry, but you can't please everyone.

Jon
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Re: Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

Post by Jon »

Hm, I may have a solution that wouldn't offend the UI and would make shortcuts at least discoverable. The shortcuts could be mentioned in the help tag that you see when hovering over the clickable buttons in the popover. I'll explore with this idea and see if it makes sense.

Jon
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martinjp
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Re: Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

Post by martinjp »

There are lots of Bookends features that one discovers only by reading the fine print in the user manual! :)

At least that has been my experience.

Yes, the shortcuts could be listed in the help tags which pop up in the popup menu.
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Re: Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

Post by Jon »

Sometimes that's unavoidable, but I don't think that applies to any menu items in Bookends.

The shortcuts wouldn't be visible in a popup menu, they'd be in the transient help tag that appears when you hover the pointer over a button in the annotation popover.

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martinjp
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Re: Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

Post by martinjp »

You know, Jon, I am going to withdraw my request that the keyboard shortcuts be reinstated. When the menu pops up quickly (when the machine's not too busy) then clicking isn't a chore. In fact, selecting text and using the menu can all be done with one hand, so I can eat a chocolate bar with the other. And I plan to replace my machine this year, so speed shouldn't be a problem in the future.

One less item on your to-do list. :)

Martin
martinjp
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Re: Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

Post by martinjp »

Working now with 14.0.5. I feel compelled to say that to my eye there is a lot of wasted white space, and so a lot of scrolling needed. If I make the window narrower it is not the space on the left that reduces but the size of the fields, which seems odd to me. There also seems to be a lot of vertical space after each field. And why are the expandable fields -- title, abstract, notes -- yoked together? If I try to save space by shrinking the title the other too shrink as well. Plus I'm wondering why there is need for both a Notes button at the top center and a Notes icon at the bottom center. There are four different ways to make the notes visible.
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Jon
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Re: Great update of reference pane in 14.0.4

Post by Jon »

If you do a new install, Vol (Issue) is Volume (Issue), and it fits exactly that space. And of course we have other users commenting on this forum who have complained it's not wide enough to accommodate their edited labels. YCPE.

There are 8 pixels between fields (vertically). Could it be 6? Probably. Would it look cramped? Maybe. How many pixels do you want?

All fields are expanded or contracted, it can't be done per field.

Some people like seeing their notes on the first tab, but editing them (if they are long) on the second tab. If you don't want to see the notes in the first tab, uncheck "Show Notes On Main Tab" in Preferences.

Jon
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