A suggestion: recognizing full-text online availability

danzac · Post by **danzac** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:42 pm

This is a bit of a meandering post, I'm more thinking out loud than making a request and wonder what others think.

Given the prevalence and ambition of Google books (they aim to index every book ever published in 10 years, as well as full text books available via amazon, I wonder if Bookends could assist the user by pointing out when references in the database (books or books in chapters specifically) are available online.

I got this idea from a website called Tyncat, it is for biblical studies specifically. You type in the author and title, and it will tell you if and where the book is available for full text searching online.

This would be of assistance to users I would think. If you are looking for something in a specific book you ahve but can't seem to find it, google books is a lifesaver. Or perhaps you have your computer but your book is at home, Google books/ Amazon can help there as well.

What I am suggesting is perhaps something like this: Bookends automatically checks, based on the citation information, both Amazon and Google books to see if the book (or chapter in a book) is available. If it is, then a simple indicator is placed in the List view/main window and clicking on the indicator takes you to the book online, wherever it may be.

Would anyone else find this useful and time-saving (at least for the 10 year interval period)?

Riad Goas · Post by **Riad Goas** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:04 am

This is an excellent idea!

During this time of writing my dissertation Google books, amazon, and archive.org have become very valuable friends to me. Having the assistance of bookends in "pointing out when references in the database (books or books in chapters specifically) are available online" would be really great.

Riad

joewiz · Post by **joewiz** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:18 pm

I agree that this is a great idea, but the implementation could be extremely difficult, particularly within Bookends, and it may be better suited to a separate application. If Jon doesn't go for it, you might shop the idea with other developers. The program could take exported files from Bookends, Endnote, Bibdesk, etc., and walk you through the almost inevitably step-by-step process of searching and deciding on matches to follow.

danzac · Post by **danzac** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:06 pm

joewiz wrote:I agree that this is a great idea, but the implementation could be extremely difficult, particularly within Bookends, and it may be better suited to a separate application. If Jon doesn't go for it, you might shop the idea with other developers. The program could take exported files from Bookends, Endnote, Bibdesk, etc., and walk you through the almost inevitably step-by-step process of searching and deciding on matches to follow.

joewiz, I'm not up on the tech side of these things, so I think you know more about it than I do. But can I ask, why would it be a step-by-step process? I can see the Amazon part possibly, but for Google books you can specify in the Advanced search the title, author, ISBN, etc. Would it not be just a matter of Bookends sending the query to google books and if it gets back a result then give the citaiton a checkmark, if not then don't?

Danny

joewiz · Post by **joewiz** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:42 pm

danzac wrote:joewiz, I'm not up on the tech side of these things, so I think you know more about it than I do. But can I ask, why would it be a step-by-step process? I can see the Amazon part possibly, but for Google books you can specify in the Advanced search the title, author, ISBN, etc. Would it not be just a matter of Bookends sending the query to google books and if it gets back a result then give the citaiton a checkmark, if not then don't?

Hi Danny,

I'm not a programmer either, so please, of course, take my comments with a grain of salt. I grant you that a 'perfect match' most likely wouldn't require multiple steps, but other cases would likely involve "multiple steps per item", which I imagine could get in the way of a batch process like the one you proposed. Google's match might provide full view, limited preview, snippet view, or no preview. Amazon tends to have many editions of a book available, so if you hadn't specified in Bookends, you'll have to choose. Amazon and Google might both have a match (or many matches), in which case you'd have to choose between them. Could you tell Bookends to remember that choice, so next time you can go straight to that choice? Would Bookends constantly be checking each time you add or modify an item? How often would it check again for updates? Let's say Bookends lets you choose between an amazon match and a google match; then, if the next time you ask Bookends to look for matches on your database, and there's a new choice available, how would Bookends indicate a new choice?

I'm asking these questions not to suggest that there isn't a good way of doing this, but to suggest that the task might require a more specialized user interface than Bookends' list view could handle right now. I'd be interested to hear how you think Bookends could negotiate these choices/steps, or if you were to design an ideal interface for handling these choices, how you'd do it.

danzac · Post by **danzac** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:04 am

joewiz,

I think you are right about the difficulty of this when bringing amazon into the equation. So let's stick with just Google Books.

Bookends sends the author and title of the book to google books. If the book is not there or has no preview available, then there is no indicator placed in the list view. If the book is available on google books then the indicator is placed in the list view. It does not matter what type of view is available - full, limited or partial - because the full book is still fully searchable on google books, it is only the way the results are presented that differs. And this is the resource that I am trying to facilitate- you can search your particular citation and Bookends will help you by linkiing right to the book.

I would suggest that Bookends do the search as soon as a citation is placed in the database. If the result is positive and the indicator is there, nothing further needs to be done. I doubt Google will change the URL even if the view type changes.

If it is not there, perhaps Bookends could 'remember' these books, and send the query for them according to the users preferences- let's say every month.

Alternatively, what if the option was a contextual menu choice. i.e. - I click on a book or book in chapter and ask Bookends to check Google Books to see if it is there. If it is, the indicator is permanently placed in the list view.

Danny

joewiz · Post by **joewiz** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:14 pm

Sounds reasonable, Danny. Let's cross our fingers!