Book and book chapter with same author

[suavito]

Hello!

I have got a question: For book chapter references I use this formatting:

a, »t« ~(Übers. v. ~u3~)~ $; in: $ e^a$:$ v. l: u2~ Auflage~ d, $S. $p–$.

As long as the book is an anthology or something like that, i. e. if it has an editor or an author different to the author of the chapter this formatting works fine.

But when both are identical, say, it is a story from a story collection of one author, I don't want the author's name twice but 'Miller, "My greatest short story"; in: same, Collected Writings 1956–1980, p. 200–225'.

Is it possible to use just one reference type for both? That would mean Bookends would have to detect if the author of the chapter is also the author of the whole book and in that case replace his name by 'same'. Or would I have to work with two book chapter types, identical with the one exception of 'e^a' for anthologies and 'same' for single author books?

Bonus question (and is not a joke!): I write in German, and German has no sexless 'same'. Instead of that there is 'ders.' ('derselbe') for males, 'dies.' ('dieselbe') for females and 'dass.' ('dasselbe') for neuters.

Is there a way to built a what–if in the formatting formula to put the sexually correct German word for 'same' into the reference? Or would I have to create different same author book chapter types for each sex? And if so, what is the more handy way: To create sex related book chapter types or sex related book types? Has any user of this forum who writes in German any experience in this or am I just a lonely pedant?

PS: Shifting to Latin would be the easy way out: 'id' ('idem'). But then the other abbreviations would have to go Latin to keep standard nature.

[Jon]

Hi,

Bookends won't detect when an author and editor have the same name. The only think I can think of is to leave the author field empty if he/she has the same name as the editor. Then you can use conditional groups (a^e) to determine the output.

As for the gender of the author, Bookends of course can't know that. I haven't thought it through entirely, but I wonder if you could use a user-defined field and conditional groups to do something like this, though. If the user field has text (put some text there if it is a male, for example) you could use conditional groups to output ders, and if no text dies (you'd have to make it more complex for dass.).

Jon
Sonny Software

[ozean]

Then you can use conditional groups (a^e) to determine the output.

small quibble: you need to put conditional groups in curly { } brackets, i.e. you need to enter {a^e}

[Jon]

Oops, yes, sorry. I should have just typed a^e or put them in their proper delimiter, {a^e}, to avoid confusion.

Jon
Sonny Software

[hareiko]

The only way I can think of is to leave the author field empty if he/she has the same name as the editor.

This is as I handle it. But this brings up another problem for the menu item "Replicate as Book Chapter":
There are two ways of replication as Chapter: Same or different author.
It would be nice to have two Menu Items:
1. Replicate as Book Chapter, same author
2. Replicate as Book Chapter, different author
In case 1 the book chapter entry would would keep the book author. In case 2 the (parent record) book author(s) would be moved to the editor field and and the author field would be left free.
It would also be nice, if I could decide (In the preferences) which other fields (and e.g. color labels or ratings) the book chapter would inherit from the parent book. I have some self defined fields in my records with I would want to also appear the the chapter records. As is, I have to copy and past these individual fields from the parent book and it is easier to duplicate the book record (command-shift-plus), change the reference type and copy and paste within the same record.

Best regards,
Hans-Reinhard

[Jon]

Something you may not know about -- if you press Command-' you copy the contents of that field from the previous reference. Note that this means the previous reference in the database, not the previous reference in the sorted list of references. So if you use the Replicate command on a newly entered book, for example, the book chapter will be placed next in the database and you can use this feature to copy fields. This may or may not be useful for you, but it's a nice feature that most users probably don't know about, so I thought I'd mention it.

Jon
Sonny Software

[hareiko]

Sorry, Jon, that does not solve my problem:

1. Command-' cannot be used on a German keyboard, as the '-character is only accessible with an alt-key combination. – For the same reason command-] (shortcut for "replicate as chapter") is not available on a German keyboard, as the ] character is accessed via alt-6. So it would be helpful to replace these short-cuts by something that can be used on non-american keyboards.

2. If I understand correctly, your work-around will only work when the book was entered immediately before its chapter. This is not practical. A typical situation would be that I find a book reference somewhere, enter it into the database, then get the book from the library and enter the chapters later, when I have the book. It would be more helpful if I could define in the Prefs, what fields should be inherited when I replicate a book as a chapter, with an option to also inherit color labels and ratings.

Finally you have not answered my suggestion to have two replicate options: same author and different author?

What do other users think??

Thanks and best regards
Hans-Reinhard

[Jon]

As i said, Command-' may not be useful in your case, but it will be for others, which is why I pointed it out.

I'm not keen on adding yet another menu for this very specific feature (same author or different author). I could make it a hierarchical menu choice, but of course that makes the selection via a mouse a bit more tedious. But if others would find it useful I'd certainly consider it.

Jon
Sonny Software

[ozean]

Bookends won't detect when an author and editor have the same name. The only think I can think of is to leave the author field empty if he/she has the same name as the editor. Then you can use conditional groups (a^e) to determine the output.

I am currently re-checking the "Historical Journal" style for a friend and stumbled upon the same requirement in the journal’s guidelines, i.e. detect when author and editor are the same and then entering a string for the second occurrence of the name in the citation. (In this case the string would be Idem.)

I just wanted to add this, since it seems this is not a very unusual setting. (At least in history.)