Shortcut to create New Note???

[Tony Higgins]

Jon,
I want to ask if a certain feature you've mentioned in this thread will accomplish something I think would make the Notecards even more useful than they already are; that is, the ability to create "Stacks" of select Notecards.

First, here's a little bit of an exchange you have had with another user, monstordh:

First, monstordh suggests the usefulness of the ability to "tag" certain Notecards:

...I will have probably 50+ sources with anywhere from 1 to 50 notecards per reference. However, not all of those notecards will be related to my research on this particular topic. There will be other topics that I will be writing on in the future that also use some of these sources. Being able to tag the actual notes, rather than the source would help distinguish these notecards for the project.

Here's your reply to him:

You can of course search notes for certain words, so if you had a notecard header in multiple references ("D-Day"), you could search for all references that had a notecard header with that "tag" (Find, or the live search box). You could create smart groups to do this for you as well. Then you'd retrieve all references that have notes discussing D-Day.

All of this sounds great, but (if it is possible to do), I think this kind of functionality could become even better. Here's how:

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a user will be able to create smart groups based on certain search criteria. Using your example above, if I had 45 references in my total database that had a notecard with the header "D-Day," then my "D-Day" smart group (or whatever I called it) would be populated with only those 45 references. That's good.

The problem is, however, what if I have 75, 100, 200, or more references that have that tag? Even more so, what if I have an average of 75+ notes for each reference? That's a lot of references to wade through to find that one nugget of information that I know I collected, but am just not sure where it is.

What would be great is to have the ability to not only populate smart groups with references that contain a notecard that has a certain tag, but to be able to populate smart groups with only those Notecards that contain that given tag. In essence, what I'm suggesting is the ability to create a temporary "Stack" of notecards that contain only a certain tag. That way, I could have literally thousands of references, each with hundreds of notes and quotes, and would be able to gather only select Notecards into a Stack. Being able to do something like this would really speed up the writing process.

Thoughts?

[Jon]

What would the result of such a search be? Bookends returns a list of reference that contain the info searched for. It sounds like you want something different. You don't want the references, you want the notes themselves, perhaps in another window. Or maybe I don't understand. Maybe you could post a simple mock-up of what you're asking for. If do understand, it wouldn't be possible to mix such notecard searches with ordinary searches.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Tony Higgins]

Thanks for the quick reply. I don't know how to do one of those fancy mock-ups like I see other users doing (yes, I'm jealous). So, I'll try to explain a little more clearly.

Imagine I have 5 individual references. Each of those references has 10 notes and quotes that I have collected as individual Notecards, that collectively make up one Note-stream for each reference. In effect, each Note-stream is a collection of individual Notecards: 5 individual references = 5 Note-streams, each with 10 Notecards = 50 individual Notecards collected in 5 separate groupings (called Note-streams).

For a visual (in place of the snazzy mock-up), picture laying out 5 books on top of your desk. On top of each book is a literal stack of note cards. Each individual stack contains 10 note cards: 5 books = 5 stacks of note cards, each with 10 note cards = 50 individual note cards collected in 5 groupings, each sitting on top of (associated with) an individual book (reference).

My idea is to be able to create a smart group (or a temporary "Smart Stack" of Notecards) made up not of the references, but of only select Notecards with specific tags.

As I understand the current functionality, if each one of my references has even 1 note card with a given tag (let's say I'm looking for "D-Day"), then my "D-Day" smart group would contain all 5 references and every Notecard associated with each reference. Thus, in order to find a certain note card, I would, in effect, need to wade through every Notecard. It would be better to be able to collect into one Smart Stack only those Notecards that have the D-Day tag.

To go back to my visual, lets say I have my 5 books and associated note cards sitting on my desk, and I need to find only those note cards that have the tag "D-Day". When I search through each individual group of note cards (i.e., Note-streams in Bookends) associated with each individual book (i.e., Reference), I find that each one of those books contains only 1 note card (i.e., Notecards) that has that tag. Thus, out of my 50 individual note cards, I have only 5 note cards with the D-Day tag. As a part of my writing process, I collect only those 5 note cards into a temporary stack (i.e., "Smart Stack").

Obviously, if you multiply the numbers above by a factor of 10, 20, 50, 100, or more, the usefulness of the ability to create Smart Stacks of only select Notecards with specific tags becomes pretty evident. I just don't know if it's possible, or not.

Does that make more sense? If not, I can try and figure out how to do a mock-up.

[monstordh]

I would add to what Mr. Higgins is saying in that one of the benefits of this system, verses a mere "search" is that they keyword "D-Day" may not actually be contained in the individual notecards. This is where this concept of "tagging" or creating a "Note stream" or "smart stack" would be even more beneficial.

[Jon]

It makes a lot of sense. What I'm having a problem with is visualizing what you'd want to happen when you searched for notecards containing "D-Day". You don't want the references returned, it seems (which is what normal searches do). You want a list of notecards (where, a separate window?). Of course each notecard is a fixed height, so where would you see the full contents of each notecard? And so on. There are many questions. I'm open to suggestions, but we have to translate the request into concrete terms. I could imagine, for example, a window with the note stream on the left. showing each notecard, with a pane on the right showing the contents of the selected notecards. A double click to edit the notecard. No adding notecards in this window. What else? And would such a thing be useful?

Jon
Sonny Software

[Jon]

I would add to what Mr. Higgins is saying in that one of the benefits of this system, verses a mere "search" is that they keyword "D-Day" may not actually be contained in the individual notecards. This is where this concept of "tagging" or creating a "Note stream" or "smart stack" would be even more beneficial.

I suppose it would be possible to allow tags to be added as markup, for example a word or phrase on a separate line, preceded by a %:

#Chapter 3.
%D-Day
%WWII
My actual note.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Jon]

Perhaps better, on the same line, separated with % signs:

%D-Day%WWII

Jon
Sonny Software

[Tony Higgins]

It makes a lot of sense. What I'm having a problem with is visualizing what you'd want to happen when you searched for notecards containing "D-Day". You don't want the references returned, it seems (which is what normal searches do). You want a list of notecards (where, a separate window?). Of course each notecard is a fixed height, so where would you see the full contents of each notecard? And so on. There are many questions. I'm open to suggestions, but we have to translate the request into concrete terms. I could imagine, for example, a window with the note stream on the left. showing each notecard, with a pane on the right showing the contents of the selected notecards. A double click to edit the notecard. No adding notecards in this window. What else? And would such a thing be useful?

Jon
Sonny Software

I understand the need for a visual. Sorry for my limited ability. Let me see if I can illustrate using the pictures on the Bookends main product page.

Here's the picture for the "Browser and Note Stream" view that is on the Bookends website:


Using this image as a starting point, here's what I envision as one option--a window with three panes (minus the middle-bottom pain above).
• The left pane (where "Groups" are) would list the various groups and "Smart Stacks" by name (i.e. "D-Day").

• In the center pane, instead of listing references, it would list some kind of identifying text for each individual Notecard collected in a given Smart Stack (like maybe the title or header of the Notecard, and the first few words followed by an elipse [...]). The center pane would also have the little "selection box" that can be clicked or un-clicked to select or un-select a particular Notecard. That way you could continue to cull through Notecards until you get down to a more refined list by marking individual Notecards and showing them in a "Hits" list; a list that one might want to export into a document for additional use.

• The right pane would look very much like the picture above, except that it would list only the individual Notecard that has been highlighted in the center pane. If Notecards can be edited in this pane, then great! But I agree, this is not a view that is used to create new Notecards. This is for collecting a very specific selection of Notecards that has been culled from a much larger library of notes and quotes.


A second option might be as follows (but if I understand your earlier comments, I don't think it's possible):
• Left pane: same as above description.

• Center pane: continues to show the reference information associated with given Notecards (like the picture above).

• Right pane: shows only the Notecards (as a stream) associated with a given reference that contain a given tag. Again, if Notecards can be edited here, then great; but this is not a view with which to add new Notecards.

BTW: my preference to both options above would be the first option. The first option would be a much more useful tool to cull through a large number of notes and quotes (Notecards) to compile a manageable "Smart Stack" that can be exported and used in a large writing/teaching project.

The idea situation would be to have the ability to: (1) create a Smart Stack that culls through all the Notecards in a Bookends database (reference library) and pulls together only Notecards with a given tag; (2) using the example window-layout in option 1 (above), cull through and refine this Smart Stack by selecting individual Notecards; (3) exporting the contents of each "Notecard and Citation" into a word document to be used as a part of a larger writing project.

This is just my limited idea based on (1) what I think Bookends might be capable of, and (2) the functionality I think would help Bookends continue to aid in the overall writing process.

As always, thanks for entertaining suggestions! This is very much appreciated.

[Jon]

Both options appear do-able. Option 1 has the advantage of being focused on the notes, not the references. The disadvantage, and it's not small, is the creation of a new, rather complex window. We've been moving towards a unified window for quite a while, and this is a step backward in the UI. Option #2 doesn't have this problem, because it would use the unified window. But it would really only add a filter for the notecards, so only those with a matching word (or tag) would show up.

I think there's a nugget (or more than a nugget) of something useful here, so for anyone interested in this, please chime in with your thoughts.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Tony Higgins]

Okay, great (that both options are theoretically doable). Given that option 1 would be a step backward, however, let me ask this about option 2: If option 2 were implemented, would it be possible to add some kind of means to further refine a Smart Stack, like maybe a check box as a part of each Notecard?

What I mean is this: In option 2, all three panes remain pretty much as they currently are, but an ability is added to filter-out Notecards that do not contain a given tag. In essence, these culled Notecards become a Smart Stack. That's great.

To build on this functionality, what if the user could then "mark" individual Notecards to create a further refined Stack? Maybe a little check box (kind of like the box that is next to each reference) could be added to each Notecard. That way, someone could work through a Smart Stack of Notecards and select or mark only those Notecards he/she wants to use in a given project. These selected or marked Notecards would show up in a list similar to a "Hits" list. Then the Notecards (including contens and citation info) that show up in the hits list could be exported.

Something like this would provide the functionality to be able to create a very targeted and refined Smart Stack of Notecards from the entire database of Notecards, while still working within the basic current direction of the UI.

I agree with Jon, anyone else have thoughts...?

[Jon]

I'm thinking of using the live search box. One could select "notecard" from the magnifying glass popup, and then whatever was showing (i.e. All) would be searched for notecards containing the entered text (if the text was preceded by a %, it would only match tags). And having a checkbox is easy. What I don't have any idea of how to implement would be a list of checked notecards. Easy enough to keep track of them. And easy to have a contextual menu option to copy them to the clipboard, say, or export them to a file.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Tony Higgins]

Let me make sure I understand:

So, in theory (and hopefully practice ) instead of having a group (Smart Stack), if I wanted to find all my Notecards in reference database tagged "D-Day," I would type "%D-Day". Then, in the middle pane I would see only the references in my database that contain at least one Notecard tagged "D-Day." And in the right pane I would see only the Notecards tagged "D-Day." Finally, each Notecard would also have a checkbox of some type that could be selected to further mark the Notecards I want to export. Is that correct?

If my understanding above is correct, is there a way to do one of the following?:

• Either add some kind of option that could be typed into the magnifying glass search area that would show only those Notecards that match both the original search criteria (in this case the "D-Day" tag) and that have been "Marked"? I guess what I'm thinking is something like a boolean search, where "%D-Day" <AND> <MARKED>" could be typed in the search area, and then the list would be further culled to show only those Notecards that have been tagged "D-Day" and marked with the little checkbox. The process might look something like this: (1) Search for "%D-Day"; (2) Read through the list of Notecards returned and "Mark" selected Notecards; (3) Search for "%D-Day <AND> <MARKED>"; (4) Read through the refined list of returned Notecards and either further refine by de-selecting checkboxes and performing the same boolean-type search, or export the Notecards and reference information.

• A second option might be to get to a list of specifically tagged Notecards by following steps 1 and 2 above. Then, instead of doing a boolean-type search that includes "MARKED", a menu option could be used to "Show only marked Notecards". The advantage of this is one less search step. The disadvantage is one more menu option .

Regardless of which of the two above options is used, if I'm understanding correctly, I should be able to type just about any text (not just "tags") into the search area and have returned only those references that have Notecards that contain that specific text, and show only those Notecards that contain that specific text. Is that correct?

[Jon]

Let me make sure I understand:

So, in theory (and hopefully practice ) instead of having a group (Smart Stack), if I wanted to find all my Notecards in reference database tagged "D-Day," I would type "%D-Day". Then, in the middle pane I would see only the references in my database that contain at least one Notecard tagged "D-Day." And in the right pane I would see only the Notecards tagged "D-Day." Finally, each Notecard would also have a checkbox of some type that could be selected to further mark the Notecards I want to export. Is that correct?

Yes. Realizing that I haven't written a line of code, so I don't know if I'd like the final result or not, this is what I was thinking of.

• Either add some kind of option that could be typed into the magnifying glass search area that would show only those Notecards that match both the original search criteria (in this case the "D-Day" tag) and that have been "Marked"? I guess what I'm thinking is something like a boolean search, where "%D-Day" <AND> <MARKED>" could be typed in the search area, and then the list would be further culled to show only those Notecards that have been tagged "D-Day" and marked with the little checkbox. The process might look something like this: (1) Search for "%D-Day"; (2) Read through the list of Notecards returned and "Mark" selected Notecards; (3) Search for "%D-Day <AND> <MARKED>"; (4) Read through the refined list of returned Notecards and either further refine by de-selecting checkboxes and performing the same boolean-type search, or export the Notecards and reference information.

• A second option might be to get to a list of specifically tagged Notecards by following steps 1 and 2 above. Then, instead of doing a boolean-type search that includes "MARKED", a menu option could be used to "Show only marked Notecards". The advantage of this is one less search step. The disadvantage is one more menu option .

Regardless of which of the two above options is used, if I'm understanding correctly, I should be able to type just about any text (not just "tags") into the search area and have returned only those references that have Notecards that contain that specific text, and show only those Notecards that contain that specific text. Is that correct?

The answer to your final question is yes.

As for the marked business, I'm uneasy that what you're describing is narrowly crafted to do what you want, and may not be of general interest (and it's kind of clunky, no offense). You could get the same result just by Command-clicking to select the cells you want to work with, then a hierarchical menu to copy to clipboard, export, etc. the selected cells. This is how the note stream works now, with no need for checkboxes.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Tony Higgins]

(and it's kind of clunky, no offense)

Oh, no offense taken what so ever. I'm not a programmer, just a user. So, I'm quite sure the solutions I might come up with would not be as elegant as either what is possible or what you would produce. Thanks for thinking about all this. Blessings.

Would still love to hear others' thoughts . . .

[Jon]

From the lack of discussion, I'm guessing this isn't going to be a particularly popular addition. Nonetheless, I've been playing with a prototype and an issue has arisen that may make it moot. It's easy to show just the notecards that match what's in the search box. But then editing/rearranging/deleting is problematic (because the other, non-matching, notecard data is being ignored, and will be replaced). An alternative is to show all notecards, but use colors to distinguish the matching ones (perhaps by making the non-matching notecards gray and uneditable). Is that a palatable solution? Or does that default the a major purpose of the exercise?

Jon
Sonny Software