quicktag

[Jon]

The (Bookends) cloud tags already can be hierarchical -- you can select more than one and Bookends will do a boolean search on all that are selected. In addition, we have virtual tags that can be assigned in preference or by right-clicking on a tag in the lower pane. This only works for words that Bookends extracts from titles, abstract, and notes at this time. If there was demand for it I could explore doing this with keywords (although that's not a simple task). But I suspect that would not be a particularly used feature.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Nhaps]

the way I see it, for the sake of explanation, tag cloud can be compared to smart folder for keywords, and hierarchical tags would be more like static folders. It would be wondeful to have hierarchical tags as a second level of organization beyond tag cloud. In my understanding tag clouds can only organize by level of frequency, and we are stuck with that. But hierarchical clouds provides much needed flexibility to select those refs you want for a specific purpose. As I write my thesis I can see myself using that level of arrangement.

[Jon]

Smart folders give you the equivalent of hierarchical tags (you define as many smart subfolders as you want, and depending on their organization you have hierarchical groups/tags). If this isn't clear, tell me and I'll provide examples.

Jon
Sonny Software

P.S. Since the word "tag" is used for different things, let me note that the "tag cloud" is a way of seeing what words you use and their frequency (and lets you search for them easily). Since it's derived from the metadata in your database you can't alter it (except by adding/removing words from the database). You can define hierarchical searches, on the other hand, in a variety of ways. Using smart folders is one.

[Nhaps]

I went back to the manual and found out some problems in my workflow. (1) using static folder, but not group, and (2) using smart group but not folder. So in my groups I had only static folders with smart groups. Now this one is terrible: did not know I could nest them inside each other because I was expecting a drag and drop selection, but BE uses drag and drop line with can be aligned inside or outside an item. I can see now your reasoning of how hierarchical BE metadata can be arranged. It would be nice, as request, to open a different window of the sidebar for long projects. The single column sidebar is just too small even though we can collapse stuff. What other ways to define hierarchical searches can be obtained, in addition to smart folders and groups.

[Jon]

Virtual groups. You can arbitrarily select groups (or folders) in your list and Bookends will either AND or OR them (depending on your setting for how to handle multiple selections). That means even if you haven't consciously planned hierarchical group organization, you can generate one on-the-fly by selecting multiple groups.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Nhaps]

thanks for the tip. but the other unaddressed question had to do with hoisting. is there a way to do that in view of the limited real estate space in the sidebar? if that's not possible then a sidebar seach field would also do.

[Jon]

There is not much advantage to a separate list of the groups -- it would only be 20 pixels or so taller than the current view (i.e. the height of the toolbar). A group search isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it might be difficult to do right since there is a folder/group nested hierarchy to deal with, not a simple list of items. Off hand this seems like a real UI no-no, and I can't think of an equivalent in other apps...

Jon
Sonny Software

[Rocky Vega]

My opinion is that the present tag/keyword functionality in Bookends is much better than Sente. Hierarchical keywords is the organizational tool of the last decade. The keyword cloud in Bookends is far more customizable and flexible. By option clicking various keywords inside a group of articles you can really fine-tune the selection of articles in a way which is much more cumbersome in Sente.

[Detienne]

Another question about QuickTags in Sente : Since many years, I have created a complicated hierarchy with many terms (many levels) in Sente. Is it possible to import this structure in Bookends ?

Thanks

[Jon]

Sente doesn't export quicktags in Sente XML as far as i know, so no, Bookends doesn't know what they are. It just knows the tags (keywords).

Jon
Sonny Software

[benjaminpelissie]

One big thing with Sente's QuickTags is in the management of tags in the library. Re-assigning QuickTags to references does not just re-assign the selected tags, but also all "parent" tags of the hierarchy, until reaching the level 0. This means that in the example below, if I move the "linears" tag from its current position to a nested position in "sexual", all the references that were tagged under "linears" will automatically lose their "linears" and "model" tags while "selection" and "sexual" tags will be re-assigned to them. This is very fluid and practical. It allows a more "organic" management of the library.

-selection
--natural
--sexual
-model
--generalized
--linears

[Detienne]

+1, benjaminpelissie

Quicktag is really useful for management in the library. For now, I can't leave this tool, because each reference have many keywords embedded in a hierarchical structure. Very useful.

If Bookends can make it so easy, I leave directly Sente for Bookends !