Having played around a little more, I have only one quick suggestion for version 8: can you give us more than 2 possible source fields? Is there any reason why we couldn't have an indefinite number? I realize this creates more opportunities for people to mess up their references, but it would certainly help me - I have discovered no less than 4(!) different source fields in the version of WebSPIRS my library connects to (some of which are only activated with certain document types).
Anyways, that's my 2 cents. Cheers!
Source Field Suggestions for version 8
-
jblander
fields of dreams
I am excited to hear that there will be additional user-defined fields in v8. I like to store ISBN/ISSN and LCCN (eg BS131.J214 1999) in book records, so that's been my 2 user fields, although in a pinch, I could have switched it all to the keywords field.
However, I am wondering whether there will be any additional pre-set fields built into v8, as well. Indeed, without some, I think I will need to shift the above info into keywords anyway, even w/4 user-defined fields. I work with a number of translated texts. I also work with a number of articles that were published twenty years ago and have since been republished in collections. I would love to have fields for additional information related to such situations, or easy solutions for formatting it. Here are some fields, in particular, that are important to me: Edition (2nd, 3rd, etc.), Series, Volume, Translator, Original Journal Info, etc. That would more than wipe out the user-defined fields.
Here are a couple of bibliographic entries that are relevant (ignore the specific format - I'm just copying from a book - it's the level of detail that interests me):
Richard Kilvington. The Sophismata of Richard Kilvington, trans., with introduction and commentary, N. Kretzmann and B. E. Kretzmann (Cambridge, 1990).
Robert Kilwardby. On Time and Imagination, trans. A. Broadie (Oxford, 1993).
Proclus. Elements of Theology, ed. and trans. E. R. Dodds, 2nd edn (Oxford, 1963).
Donald Davidson. "The Individuation of Events", in Essays on Actions and Events (Oxford, 1980), 216-34, originally published in N. Rescher et al. (eds) Essays in Honor of Carl G. Hempel (Dordrecht, 1969).
Would each of these items need a separate reference type, so that I can include specific extra text (like "trans." or "ed. and trans." [or should it be "ed." and "trans." set up with complex formatting) when I define how it exports to a bibliography? How would I include the edition information? How many extra reference types will be in v8, and if any, will translated text be one of them? If I need separate reference types in order to add one extra field of info, that could get into endless addition of types! Is there some sort of conditional determination, analogous to "if {edition}, then {edition}, {date}, else {date}"? (I know my syntax is completely wrong, but hopefully it's clear. I'm just learning Bookends, having just read through the manual today - if you can believe it, I answered about 95% of my own questions!)
Also, would a new feature of v8 happen to be that a user can vary the field names by reference type? For example, for a book, I normally don't need the journal or pages fields. Perhaps I could use one of those for the edition, for example. It would be nice if, when the reference type is set to Journal Article, the Journal field shows "Journal", and when the reference type is set to Book, the Journal field shows "Edition". (This is purely illustrative - I'm not suggesting this as optimal.) I know that I can change the field names, but if I want to vary the field by reference type, it's difficult to keep track of what is supposed to be there.
Of course, it seems preferable to have different fields for a majority of the critical data across the major reference types. But I don't know the structure well enough to really know for sure.
The bottom line for me is that I get the basic structure for how to set up different reference types, but since there is so much variation (at least for me) within a type, I'm puzzled about the easiest way to handle those complexities in getting this information into a bibliography. Knowing if there is a fundamental simple answer here will help me with nearly all of the rest of the question that I'm not even going to try to add on here.
No expectations for quick answers, BTW. I know I'm dumping a lot all at once.
However, I am wondering whether there will be any additional pre-set fields built into v8, as well. Indeed, without some, I think I will need to shift the above info into keywords anyway, even w/4 user-defined fields. I work with a number of translated texts. I also work with a number of articles that were published twenty years ago and have since been republished in collections. I would love to have fields for additional information related to such situations, or easy solutions for formatting it. Here are some fields, in particular, that are important to me: Edition (2nd, 3rd, etc.), Series, Volume, Translator, Original Journal Info, etc. That would more than wipe out the user-defined fields.
Here are a couple of bibliographic entries that are relevant (ignore the specific format - I'm just copying from a book - it's the level of detail that interests me):
Richard Kilvington. The Sophismata of Richard Kilvington, trans., with introduction and commentary, N. Kretzmann and B. E. Kretzmann (Cambridge, 1990).
Robert Kilwardby. On Time and Imagination, trans. A. Broadie (Oxford, 1993).
Proclus. Elements of Theology, ed. and trans. E. R. Dodds, 2nd edn (Oxford, 1963).
Donald Davidson. "The Individuation of Events", in Essays on Actions and Events (Oxford, 1980), 216-34, originally published in N. Rescher et al. (eds) Essays in Honor of Carl G. Hempel (Dordrecht, 1969).
Would each of these items need a separate reference type, so that I can include specific extra text (like "trans." or "ed. and trans." [or should it be "ed." and "trans." set up with complex formatting) when I define how it exports to a bibliography? How would I include the edition information? How many extra reference types will be in v8, and if any, will translated text be one of them? If I need separate reference types in order to add one extra field of info, that could get into endless addition of types! Is there some sort of conditional determination, analogous to "if {edition}, then {edition}, {date}, else {date}"? (I know my syntax is completely wrong, but hopefully it's clear. I'm just learning Bookends, having just read through the manual today - if you can believe it, I answered about 95% of my own questions!)
Also, would a new feature of v8 happen to be that a user can vary the field names by reference type? For example, for a book, I normally don't need the journal or pages fields. Perhaps I could use one of those for the edition, for example. It would be nice if, when the reference type is set to Journal Article, the Journal field shows "Journal", and when the reference type is set to Book, the Journal field shows "Edition". (This is purely illustrative - I'm not suggesting this as optimal.) I know that I can change the field names, but if I want to vary the field by reference type, it's difficult to keep track of what is supposed to be there.
Of course, it seems preferable to have different fields for a majority of the critical data across the major reference types. But I don't know the structure well enough to really know for sure.
The bottom line for me is that I get the basic structure for how to set up different reference types, but since there is so much variation (at least for me) within a type, I'm puzzled about the easiest way to handle those complexities in getting this information into a bibliography. Knowing if there is a fundamental simple answer here will help me with nearly all of the rest of the question that I'm not even going to try to add on here.
No expectations for quick answers, BTW. I know I'm dumping a lot all at once.
To answer your last question first: in Bookends 8 field labels will change on a Type-by-Type basis. So while you have 19 fields (18 real ones plus one virtual field for issue), they can differ between reference Types. For example, as set up now (in beta), books use User2-4 for Edition, Translator, and ISBN. You can of course change these for books if you like. User1 is usually not assigned so that folks who use BibTeX have it for the key field. But if you are not a TeX user, it is free to assign to whatever you want.
For the examples you gave, yes, you could make each a new reference Type (you can define up to 10 new reference Types in Bookends 8 ). There is no built-in pseudo-coding language as you describe (if-then-else), but Bookends does intelligently handle empty fields. So if you had a "commentary field" (say, User1) and it was used, your first example could appear as is, and if it was unused (a book without commentary), it might appar as
Richard Kilvington. The Sophismata of Richard Kilvington, trans., N. Kretzmann and B. E. Kretzmann (Cambridge, 1990).
or something like that (depending on how the format was crafted).
Jon
Sonny Software
For the examples you gave, yes, you could make each a new reference Type (you can define up to 10 new reference Types in Bookends 8 ). There is no built-in pseudo-coding language as you describe (if-then-else), but Bookends does intelligently handle empty fields. So if you had a "commentary field" (say, User1) and it was used, your first example could appear as is, and if it was unused (a book without commentary), it might appar as
Richard Kilvington. The Sophismata of Richard Kilvington, trans., N. Kretzmann and B. E. Kretzmann (Cambridge, 1990).
or something like that (depending on how the format was crafted).
Jon
Sonny Software
-
jblander
smart handling of fields
Bookends' smart handling of fields takes care of nearly all other remaining worries and questions that I have. Bookends is now OFFICIALLY on my Christmas list (along with Kyuss and Fu Manchu to listen to while I input my references - and I'm not even a stoner!).
One suggestion, albeit for the user guide (and this is perhaps old news):
The following items are from the Formatting Options tab under Edit Formats:
Show Example…
When a Field is Empty
However, in the current (v7) user guide, the instructions and descriptions for these two elements follow the information for "Enclose citations with...", which is the last part of the Bib & Document Options Tab instructions. "Show Example..." and "When a Field is Empty" should precede the Bib & Document Options tab instructions, i.e., be included with the earlier Formatting Options tab instructions, which is where they lie in the application itself.
I think that its misplacement played some role in my failure in trial and error to get the right outputs, because I didn't realize how cool and powerful was the smart handling of fields and text output/quoting. Very nifty, I must say.
One suggestion, albeit for the user guide (and this is perhaps old news):
The following items are from the Formatting Options tab under Edit Formats:
Show Example…
When a Field is Empty
However, in the current (v7) user guide, the instructions and descriptions for these two elements follow the information for "Enclose citations with...", which is the last part of the Bib & Document Options Tab instructions. "Show Example..." and "When a Field is Empty" should precede the Bib & Document Options tab instructions, i.e., be included with the earlier Formatting Options tab instructions, which is where they lie in the application itself.
I think that its misplacement played some role in my failure in trial and error to get the right outputs, because I didn't realize how cool and powerful was the smart handling of fields and text output/quoting. Very nifty, I must say.
Re: smart handling of fields
Thanks for pointing this out -- they must have been carried over from older documentation and misplaced at some point. These sections will be relocated in the Bookends 8 User Guide.jblander wrote:However, in the current (v7) user guide, the instructions and descriptions for these two elements follow the information for "Enclose citations with...", which is the last part of the Bib & Document Options Tab instructions. "Show Example..." and "When a Field is Empty" should precede the Bib & Document Options tab instructions, i.e., be included with the earlier Formatting Options tab instructions, which is where they lie in the application itself.
Jon
Sonny Software