Cited Pages in Parentheses after Pages for First Citation

A place for users to ask each other questions, make suggestions, and discuss Bookends.
Post Reply
DocStaples
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:27 am

Cited Pages in Parentheses after Pages for First Citation

Post by DocStaples »

Apologies if this has been addressed previously, but I couldn't find any examples on the forum.

I'm working in the SBL format and my problem is that for many first citations, I want to include both the full page range of the article AND the cited pages in parentheses. Essentially, I want this for a first citation (assuming journal article type):

Danny Zacharias, "Article Title," Journal Name 126 no. 2 (2011): 201–15 (204–05)

The problem is that I get these alternatives (and a couple others in the process I can't recall), none of which are satisfactory:

(2011): 201–15 (, 204–05) [the only solution to this one seems to be to turn off the "Before" punctuation for cited pages under Common Settings, but that breaks everything else)
(2011): 201–15 () [this is the output I get for those occasions where I do cite the article without a specific page range]
(2011):, 204–05 [this is if I uncheck the "allow reference page number" option, which is not what I'm wanting to do, nor is this output a good one anyway)

Jon
Site Admin
Posts: 8574
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:27 pm
Location: Bethesda, MD
Contact:

Re: Cited Pages in Parentheses after Pages for First Citation

Post by Jon »

Have you tried the format setting Citation Options -> Cited Papers -> Allow reference page number when using Cited Pages?

Jon
Sonny Software

DocStaples
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:27 am

Re: Cited Pages in Parentheses after Pages for First Citation

Post by DocStaples »

Yup, that's checked. That's how I get the first two results I listed in the initial post. The third (as stated) is what results when that is unchecked.

The problem is that box doesn't solve the problem of getting the punctuation for the cited pages right.

Jon
Site Admin
Posts: 8574
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:27 pm
Location: Bethesda, MD
Contact:

Re: Cited Pages in Parentheses after Pages for First Citation

Post by Jon »

You can change the "before" punctuation on an ad hoc basis like this

@\, \13018

In which case a comma and space will be used, regardless of what's in the format.

Jon
Sonny Software

DocStaples
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:27 am

Re: Cited Pages in Parentheses after Pages for First Citation

Post by DocStaples »

I'm afraid that doesn't come close to solving the problem for a couple reasons:

1) I'm trying to ELIMINATE the comma and space, which are being added to the first citation despite me not wanting them at all since the page range is inside parentheses. I want this: (2011): 201–15 (204–05), but I'm getting this: (2011): 201–15 (, 204–05). And unchecking the box for the "before" punctuation under Common Settings > Cited Pages is not an option, as that essentially breaks every other citation type.

2) In a document which already has 2100+ citations, employing an ad-hoc solution isn't really a solution, especially since I'd have to know whether each instance was the first citation, etc. That effectively defeats the purpose of using a scannable citation system altogether; at that point I might as well do everything longhand.

Jon
Site Admin
Posts: 8574
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:27 pm
Location: Bethesda, MD
Contact:

Re: Cited Pages in Parentheses after Pages for First Citation

Post by Jon »

If you want to eliminate the comma space, you'd do @\\13.18.

Bookends won't change the punctuation that comes before cited pages depending on whether it's the first or the 2 time it's cited. If you want that done you have to handle it yourself. So yes, you'd have to know whether the paper had been cited before. I don't know if any reference manager can do what you want automatically.

Jon
Sonny Software

DocStaples
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:27 am

Re: Cited Pages in Parentheses after Pages for First Citation

Post by DocStaples »

I’m a former Sente user. It used to allow that level of granular control, which was really important given all the quirks of SBL style. They did it by having a different setting for first citations versus others.

There’s no way I’ll be able to ad hoc this, so I guess I’ll have to find a find-and-replace solution in the word processor itself after scanning. Oh well. Thanks as always for your swift support!

Jon
Site Admin
Posts: 8574
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:27 pm
Location: Bethesda, MD
Contact:

Re: Cited Pages in Parentheses after Pages for First Citation

Post by Jon »

Bookends also allows different output for first and subsequent citations. But for cited pages it's global or ad hoc.

Although this won't help in your case, for completeness I'll note that (1) cited pages are optional (so if you don't want to cite a particular page, leave it out and you wouldn't see an output like 0, which you mention in the first post), and (2) you can also use "quoted text" instead of cited pages, in which case everything is controlled in an ad hoc manner: {temp cite\, pp. 1-4\}. But as I said, this is for others who might read this, it doesn't matter in your case.

Jon
Sonny Software

Post Reply