How to translate the occurence of "Retrieved from" in the Bibliography?++

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mbrakes
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How to translate the occurence of "Retrieved from" in the Bibliography?++

Post by mbrakes »

I'm a relatively new Bookends + Mellel user, and love it so far.

But there's a learning curve, and I'm now struggling with some smaller issues, most notably:

How can I permanently translate the occurence of "Retrieved from" in front of URL's in the Bibliography?

I'm writing in Norwegian, and would love to just enter the norwegian translation, "set it and forget it", rather than having to edit every occurence manually. I've looked in the prefs, but haven't been able to locate any obvious user-editable field.

For now, I have solved all my initial problems by decoupling the Bibliography by unticking the "Live Bibliography" option in Mellel, and editing manually, as I'm in the finishing stages of my home exam. But I assume there must be a better, more elegant way - I tried to search these forums and the manual, but haven't found a solution so far. I'm following the APA 6th format, FWIW.

My other issue is related to italicizing titles - is it possible to define this somewhere in prefs? Haven't found any obvious way to do it so far.

And in an ideal world, I should be able to edit so that first citation mentions all authours upon first mention, but only the first author and et al. on subesquent mentions. Is it possible to set this up as well?

Advance thanks for any guidance! :)

Jon
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Re: How to translate the occurence of "Retrieved from" in the Bibliography?++

Post by Jon »

All are possible. Please go to the Help menu and take the various tutorials (video and PDF). And the User Guide is a large but comprehensive manual.

The format you are using dictates what the bibliography and citations look like. Open it in Formats Manager and edit the Internet Type so that Retrieved from is replaced by whatever you want.

In the format, italicize the "t" in the Order field. If that's not showing up in Mellel, go to Mellel bibliography preferences and edit that.

And in the format Citation Options, you can tell Bookends what to ouput when a reference is cited for a second time.

This should get you started, please read the details in the documentation.

Jon
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mbrakes
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Re: How to translate the occurence of "Retrieved from" in the Bibliography?++

Post by mbrakes »

Wow Jon, that was quick, and extremely helpful, thankyouthankyouthankyou! :D

I was just looking in the wrong place, and with limited time at my disposal as the deadline is approaching, your pointer in the right direction was invaluable!

It all makes sense now!

Thanks again! :D

mbrakes
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 4:17 am

Re: How to translate the occurence of "Retrieved from" in the Bibliography?++

Post by mbrakes »

I have now managed to adjust pretty much everything according to my special use-case, except for one thing:

In norwegian, the edition of a book is not supposed to be listed like the default "1st, 2nd, 3rd ed." etc,. but instead "1. utg., 2. utg., 3. utg." - just a simple period immediately following the edition number. So I need to replace "st, nd, rd" following the numbers with punctuation marks.

I am sure this is possible and covered in the user manual, but simple searches for phrases like "edition" will not retrieve any relevant hits, and I can't think of any other relevant search terms ATM, so would really appreciate any pointers in the right direction - advance thanks! :)

Jon
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Re: How to translate the occurence of "Retrieved from" in the Bibliography?++

Post by Jon »

Let the format provide the punctuation marks.

For the metadata, that's up to you. Bookends doesn't know what's in the fields, only humans do.

Do a Global Change -> Search/Replace in the Edition field and replace st, nd, rd with nothing.

Jon
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mbrakes
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Re: How to translate the occurence of "Retrieved from" in the Bibliography?++

Post by mbrakes »

Thanks a lot Jon - again! :D

Just to make sure we understand each other:

I have not supplied the st, nd, rd myself in the metadata, so doing a reach/replace in the metadata fields would not get rid of them, if that is what you are suggesting. It seems like the the st, nd, rd are supplied automatically by Bookends, and that I have to change a setting or variable somewhere - except I haven't been able to find out how, so far.

I suspect the clue lies in the beginning of your reply: "let the format provide the punctuation marks"?

Under Formats Manager > Bibliography Options > Field Order, I have the following variables:

a. (d). t `(`u3*~, Trans. ~u2~ utg.~$ Vol. $v`)`. l: u`.` {$doi:$u17^$Hentet fra $z}

where "utg." is the norwegian translation for "edition" and "Hentet fra" is the translation for "Retrieved from".

So I suspect that some surrounding variable is responsible for the st, nd or rd, and can be replaced with a period to achieve what I want...?

Except I can't figure out which variable that is?

If this isn't currently possible - please consider it a feature request :-)

Advance thanks - any help would be most appreciated! :D

Jon
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Re: How to translate the occurence of "Retrieved from" in the Bibliography?++

Post by Jon »

No, Bookends doesn't supply any text, certainly not "st, nd, etc.".

Look at affected references themselves, the user2 field (usually labeled Edition).

Jon
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mbrakes
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Re: How to translate the occurence of "Retrieved from" in the Bibliography?++

Post by mbrakes »

Thanks a lot Jon, will do! :)

Philologist
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Re: How to translate the occurence of "Retrieved from" in the Bibliography?++

Post by Philologist »

Hello mbrakes
Nice to see someone here from Norway. :–)

Here is the book format you are looking for to get 2. utg., 3. utg., etc:

a. (d). t `(`u3*~, Transl. ~u2~. utg.~ $ Vol. $v`)`. l: u`.` {$https://doi.org/$u17^z}

Enter only a number into the user2 field (usually labeled Edition.) The format will provide you with the dot and the string "utg." For a 1st edition leave the field empty.

All language specific items should reside in the format. I recommend you create and use your own Norwegian APA format.

1. If you want to keep on using APA 6th edition, instead of the latest 7th edition, then select the format "APA 6th Edition.fmt" in Biblio > Formats Manager…
2. Click on the + button in the lower left corner
3. In the upcoming small floating window (called 'New Format') give it a new meaningful name, such as APA 6th Edition (My Norwegian version) and make sure "Replicate all Types" are selected from the drop-down menu so you get an exact copy
4. Now disable "APA 6th Edition.fmt" in the Format list. It's the pristine format that came with Bookends and you can return back to it if you happen to screw up things in the new format (which isn't likely to happen, I hope.)
5. Use the new format as long as you need the APA style and your readers are Norwegians.

In order to understand how to apply a dot after an edition number, you need to read the part about Special Characters in the User Guide. It begins on page 228.
How can I permanently translate the occurrence of "Retrieved from" in front of URL's in the Bibliography?
Just overwrite the English terms in your new format with the corresponding Norwegian terms.
rather than having to edit every occurence manually
Every time you start editing manually you know that something is wrong with your format. You should never need to edit anything manually (exotic exceptions may prove the rule.)

I have a question. You have "Transl." in your format. This stands for "translatø̣r" which means "autorisert oversetter". Now, most translators of books are *not* autorisert. So wouldn't having 'oversetter' be more correct? (Just trying to improve my Norwegian. :D )

mbrakes
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Re: How to translate the occurence of "Retrieved from" in the Bibliography?++

Post by mbrakes »

Thanks a lot Philologist!

I have only just begun using Bookends + Mellel and just scratched the surface so far, and it is dawning upon me that this combo is infinitely more complex and powerful than I initially thought! But that is probably a good thing - if the complexity had been apparent during the trial period, then I would probably have chickened out! :lol:

But time invested in learning and customising Bookends now will probably save me a ton of time and effort in the future though, so I'm glad I'm doing it - especially now that this forum is also revealing itself as such a friendly and incredibly helpful resource!

I'm staying with APA 6th for now as that is what the Uni has specified, but I guess they will adopt APA 7th at some point. Probably just taking some time because they need to update their norwegian APA guidelines first (just me speculating)

As far as your last question is concerned - you are of course correct! Your command of the norwegian language is probably better than mine :lol: I just hadn't paid much attention to the Format editor yet, so that wasn't something I had really considered.

Thank you again!

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