Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

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heshiegreshie
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Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

Post by heshiegreshie »

Hi,

I’ve created my own citation format on Bookends on the Mac. I’m trying to move most of my workflow to iOS, and have been trying to import the citation format into Bookends on iOS. However, I don’t seem to be able to get it to work. Based on the documentation online, I should just be able to email myself the format style from the Mac and open on iOS. However, the format on the Mac is “.fmt” and the format to open in iOS is “.csl”. I’ve tried changing the extension, no luck. I’ve tried AirDrop, no luck (not recognizing Bookends as an application that can open the format). Any thoughts or suggestions greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Jon
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Re: Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

Post by Jon »

They .fmt and .csl are totally independent and incompatible. Bookends for iOS uses Citation Style Language, which you can read about here

https://citationstyles.org

Jon
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heshiegreshie
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Re: Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

Post by heshiegreshie »

So, is there then an easy way to get the same citation formatting on both MacOS and iOS? Is there a conversion tool that would allow for this? Thank you.
Jon
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Re: Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

Post by Jon »

No, one is proprietary (.fmt) and one is open source (.csl). There is no way to convert from one to the other.

Jon
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heshiegreshie
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Re: Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

Post by heshiegreshie »

So there is no compatibility between your desktop and mobile apps? Or am I missing something? This is an important aspect of utilizing the software, and it took me a while to get the citation format exactly as required by my institution.
Jon
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Re: Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

Post by Jon »

Huh? They are obviously quite compatible in many ways. And they can both format references in similar ways. But the formats themselves are specific for the OS they run on. That has always been the case -- I don't know how to say this any more clearly. And that's not likely to change, certainly not in the foreseeable future.

Jon
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heshiegreshie
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Re: Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

Post by heshiegreshie »

Okay. Perhaps I am not stating my issue clearly. I have created a citation format on my Mac, to the specifications of my institution. It doesn’t exist in another form, and is not available on the Zotero repository. When I go to work on my iPad, I am unable to cite things in the same manner. I cannot export the citation format from the Mac (.fmt) to the format that iOS/Zotero recognize (.csl). Additionally, I cannot re-create the format on iOS.

Is there a way to cite in the correct format on iOS, without having to go back to my Mac to do so? Thank you.
Jon
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Re: Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

Post by Jon »

No.

But you can insert a temp citation in Bookends for iOS (in, say, a Pages file) that you can then scan in Bookends for Mac, using your format.

Jon
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NilsMS
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Re: Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

Post by NilsMS »

Additionally, I cannot re-create the format on iOS.
Strictly speaking, this is not true. Take a CSL-format which resembles the style you want and adjust it to your needs. This can be done, e. g. within the free Zotero-app. The new style can then be added to the app (see user guide: https://www.sonnysoftware.com/bookendsontap/docs/, section "Citations").
vinschger
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Re: Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

Post by vinschger »

With interest I have read this thread....

- it would be great, if bookends for macos in the future can also use CSL styles - at least optionally... maybe natively (optionally to bookends styles) or with a conversion tool.. as CSL is open source and the database is huge, this would be simply great (although I know that creating new styles in bookends is possible and not so difficult, but why creating new things taking time from each user, that are already open source?). I have understood, that the bookends proprietary format might have some advantages, but being able to use the huge CSL repository indeed would be fantastic. Maybe not as easy to add all sophisticated special cases, but helpful to have even an "inofficial" converting tool for basic referencing needs?

- on the other hand, if I have understood this thread correctly, it would be possible to use CSL on ipad os. However, as far as I have seen in the bookends ios manual (and tried myself), it's possible to insert CSL-references with bookends-ios, but not to scan a word document, created with bookends for macos and temporary citations, to add a bibliography with CSL... correct?
Jon
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Re: Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

Post by Jon »

You can't scan documents in Bookends for iOS.

Jon
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vinschger
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Re: Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

Post by vinschger »

thank you! any plans on the short term or long term for a CSL support in bookends for macos or a converting tool for basic functionality? although I appreciate how easy it is to create a format in bookends from an existing and similar format style, having the possibility to use thr huge CSL repository which is open source and updated with all new journal styles, this might be a fascinating possibility.
Jon
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Re: Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

Post by Jon »

I explored this years ago and it simply wasn't feasible to convert from one to the other, there were too many differences between them. Using CSL is an idea I revisit form time to time, but there are always issues with it -- it's certainly not a priority.

Jon
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vinschger
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Re: Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

Post by vinschger »

Dear Jon, on bookends for iOS it works quite well, which proves that you can associate the bookends fields with the csl fields quite perfectly already. the csl styles themselves seem to be ok for most journals. Why not just including them as an option to your proprietary format on macos? it's always nice to be able to use an already existing style...
iandol
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Re: Using citation format created on MacOS in Bookends for iOS

Post by iandol »

Well, I use CSL styles perfectly well with Bookends on macOS, given that temporary citation from Bookends can work with Pandoc, which also uses CSL for formatting manuscripts to DOCX, LaTeX, HTML and a plethora of others. I don't know enough about Zotero, but at least with a BibTeX sync some of the Zotero workflows for formatting should also work (i.e. use Bookends for management but Zotero plugins for formatting with a BibTeX intermediate file).

There is nothing stopping you from using CSL tooling with Bookends. Jon could remove Bookends formats and replace it with CSL, but that throws away a great GUI editor, years of development, the ability to customise exports (even the little things like customising the PDF renaming with formats etc.), and the custom formatting plugins for Word etc. If Jon was writing format tools from scratch (as I assume was the case for iOS), it obviously would make sense to use all the hard work that went into CSL. But to replace an existing well developed system seems crazy to me...
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