Bring the DOI to the main section

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Dellu
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Bring the DOI to the main section

Post by Dellu »

Given the importance of the DOI (and also the ISBN) these days, it would be handy if these two fields can be brought to the Main section of the Reference pane.

- Short Title, Translator and User4 are less useful than the DOI

Dear, Jon, can you swap these fields?
(or, an option to drag fields across the main and additional fields).
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Re: Bring the DOI to the main section

Post by Jon »

You can't swap between tabs.

But I really don't recommend using the edit pane for viewing the metadata, that's what the Summary view is for. And you can position (and even edit) the DOI where you want in that view (using Preferences).

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Dellu
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Re: Bring the DOI to the main section

Post by Dellu »

I am using the Reference Pane to edit (insert) the DOI and ISBN by copying from the pdf files. Having them in the main section with the other major items such as the title and the date etc, would have been handy.
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Re: Bring the DOI to the main section

Post by Jon »

I don't know if it helps your workflow, but did you know that you can switch edit panes using the keyboard? Command-2 is the Additional Fields pane.

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Dellu
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Re: Bring the DOI to the main section

Post by Dellu »

that is good solution
DrJJWMac
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Re: Bring the DOI to the main section

Post by DrJJWMac »

I also would appreciate having the DOI (and PMCID/PMID) in the Main editor. I am frustrated that I always have to switch tabs to update the DOI when I do a copy+paste operation from elsewhere.

I would hope in a future UI update, if more than one tab is used for meta information, the meta information can be distributed more logically between tabs by relative importance. An example is to have Main and User Fields with all pre-named variables in the Main tab and all UserN fields in the second tab.
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Jon
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Re: Bring the DOI to the main section

Post by Jon »

It's not that simple. All the fields in the main tab can have styled text. The additional fields can only be in plain text. Some of this is for historical reasons, but regardless, changing it would break too many things. And note that you can change the field labels in both tabs -- for example, if English is not your native language you can use the equivalent in another language. Or repurpose a field for a use other than the default (some fields have rather fixed capabilities (like authors or date), but others are entirely flexible).

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iandol
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Re: Bring the DOI to the main section

Post by iandol »

Jon has given a clear argument why he won't change it, but I nevertheless want to vocalise my wish that the DOI was on the main tab. It is the single most important piece of metadata for me, and I prefer having the main editor tab open as my main view+modifier, I just don't like having to constantly swap from Summary[1] to Edit pane. I suppose I can repurpose user4 or something, but this would complicate other aspects of our workflow. One simple solution may be to make the DOI a styled text textfield, as for anyone who uses styled text (not me), perhaps adding underline/italic or other styling has a place; and for those of us who never use text styling, it will mean we can nevertheless have the DOI as a main field?

- - -
[1] I prefer the text fields in the edit panel as they have a fixed size, whereas summary fields tend to scale to the content, moving items around..
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Re: Bring the DOI to the main section

Post by Jon »

Thinking out loud, but one possible solution would be to bring all fields to the first tab, which would of course entail scrolling to see all of them. But if they could all be arranged (as they are on their separate tabs) this might be less of a problem. I'm not saying this is feasible or even do-able without too many negative consequences, just throwing it out there.

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DrJJWMac
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Re: Bring the DOI to the main section

Post by DrJJWMac »

> ... but one possible solution would be to bring all fields to the first tab,

I could accept this solution. In the process, perhaps the fields could be grouped with expand/collapse arrows both to modernize the UI and to help reduce the need for scrolling as desired. For example ...

>> Header Information
- Type
- Title
- Authors / Editors
- Year
- Volume (Issue)

>> Content Overview
- Abstract
- Keywords

>> Reference Links
- URL
- DOI
- PMID

>> Location Information
- Authors Addresses
- Authors Contact
- Publisher
- Publisher Address

>> ...

>> User Fields
- User 1
- User 2
- ...

> I'm not saying this is feasible or even do-able without too many negative consequences ...

I posit that enough interest exists to make these (and other much needed) improvements in Bookends that it is worth soliciting alpha-testers for what might have to be a nuke and repave operation. I also posit that, sooner rather than later, the capabilities in Bookends are going to be surpassed by something (or a combination of somethings) from the wolf-pack of developments around apps such as Zotero (with ZotFile), ZenReader, Obsidian, and Keypoints, all with more modern UI appearances and more open (e.g. markdown, JavaScript) baseline implementations

Just my own thinking out loud.
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Re: Bring the DOI to the main section

Post by Jon »

iandol wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:40 pm I prefer the text fields in the edit panel as they have a fixed size, whereas summary fields tend to scale to the content, moving items around..
Note that you can configure the order of the fields shown in the Summary view (in Preferences, by drag re-ordering the list). You can place fields you want to be instantly visible in a consistent place, like the DOI field for example, at the top of the window.

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iandol
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Re: Bring the DOI to the main section

Post by iandol »

@jon — Note that you can configure the order of the fields shown in the Summary view...
thanks I do have my DOI at the top and do appreciate the flexibility of how we can rearrange the Summary. I think my specific issue is hard to solve, and that is that some fields can be small or huge: I do want the authors up top, but an increasing number of authors means my abstract moves around depending on author count. The fixed fields of the edit pane means I can visually scan to a known position more quickly. Using a bibliography format in Summary would help I suppose, which Bookends does support 8)
@jon — but one possible solution would be to bring all fields to the first tab
This would be great for my use, I could drag-n-drop to my preferred order, each field fixed. I don't think it should be a huge change for other users, but I'm sure there will be some people for whom the division across panel is preferable;
@DrJJWMac — "perhaps the fields could be grouped with expand/collapse arrows"
This locks us back with e.g. the DOI fixed down a list; if I want it prominently at the top or under the title, groups will limit that. If we could create collapsible section ourselves then that would solve all problems, but that is starting to get complicated...
@DrJJWMac — sooner rather than later, the capabilities in Bookends are going to be surpassed by something
Not to derail the thread, but "killer" reference managers have come, and then they've all gone. Some with "beautiful" UIs (Papers), or featureful UIs (Sente), but all have crashed and burned. Bookends is both feature packed and has a really flexible UI. It adapts to work from markdown to Word workflows. Zotero has a really poor UI and terrible reference management features (but nice online workflow, not surprising as it is basically a standalone browser plugin). The only thing that really "competes" with Bookends is Endnote, which is improving (still worse UI, worse reference management, but dominates the market by lobbying Universities for licenced version, and CWYW of course)... Knowledge managers (Obsiden and friends, glorified text wikis) are not reference managers, and those that may aim to fill that space will have to greatly complicate their UI to offer the features we need to manage academic references and cite them in our writing...
Dellu
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Re: Bring the DOI to the main section

Post by Dellu »

Jon wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:43 am which would of course entail scrolling to see all of them.
We rarely need to see all of them. In most cases, we need to see just the important fields. For that, putting them to a single tab is pretty good idea.

But, I personally don<t like DrJJWMac´s idea of "expand/collapse arrows". Clicking on the arrows wouldn´t be much of a different process from clicking the tab ( the current approach).
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Re: Bring the DOI to the main section

Post by Jon »

As iandol pointed out, they are mutually exclusive. Either you have logical groups whose locations are fixed (e.g. all unique identifier fields belong in one collapsible group), or you have co-equal groups whose locations you can change (swap title with URL, for example, as you can now within a tab).

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DrJJWMac
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Re: Bring the DOI to the main section

Post by DrJJWMac »

I propose at a minimum some thoughts should be given to making changes in the design to the editing panels. The design as it is now seems to be focused more on what is easier for the code base to handle (use one tab for "styled" text and one tab for "plain" text). I feel that an improved layout is one that brings what most users consider to be primary meta-content all to one location, followed by secondary meta content somewhere else. IOW, the concept of styled versus plain text as the separation for Main and Other editing tabs should take a back seat to Primary and Secondary meta-content as the separation for tabs.

Whether the potential to overwhelm an editing tab with too much information is handled by using collapsing sections (which admittedly have advantages and disadvantages) or by using "movable" sections is of less concern to me.
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