Much time needed to open groups

[Philologist]

I'm having 3233 references in my Library. I have many groups with a considerable number of subgroups, i.e. static groups, smart groups, folders and smart folders. Since it sometimes may take between 10 and 20 seconds to open a group, or even longer, depending on how many subgroups the parent group has, I have two questions :

1) For better orientation, the names of all my parent groups and many subgroups start with an emoji followed by space. Do you think the emojis can be the reason for why it takes so long time to open my groups?

2) I have increased the internal cache to 30 MB. Is that perhaps too much and counterproductive? I saw you recommend 14 MB in another thread. What would be the right size in my case?

PS
I should like to mention that I don't synch my Bookend library and I don't have any PDF folder connected to Bookends, in case that makes any difference.

[Dellu]

The internal cache doesn't seem to have any effect.
I put it on the max; 200. I have also tried it on 20.

One of my library contains 12,000 items. Still, opening a group doesn't last longer than 2 seconds.

There is sth wrong with your library. Rebuilding your library might help. Have you tried that?

[Jon]

Increasing the internal cache really only helps when libraries become quite large, maybe 15-20K references (this is empirically determined, btw, and may vary between computers and OS versions, so don't take that range as gospel). I believe the default for new installs now is 20 MB, which is more than enough for your needs.

I can't imagine why have an emoji in a group name would after the ability of Bookends to find the contents.

Is this true for static groups, or just smart groups? If it's all groups, I like Dellu's suggestion of Rebuilding the library.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Philologist]

The internal cache doesn't seem to have any effect.

Yes, that's my impression too.

One of my library contains 12,000 items. Still, opening a group doesn't last longer than 2 seconds.

Dellu, how do you organize your groups?

My references are all related to the humanities, where culture, history and language are the driving forces. My groups are therefore all organized hierarchically, and at the top level is usually a continent or a country. Example:

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Maybe this hierarchical structure is the reason why it takes so long to open a group? Maybe I should try to have all groups on the same root level?

Is this true for static groups, or just smart groups?

Hard to say, because if we use the Confucius example above, in order to access the group "Biographies (Confucius)" I first need to open the "Asia" group which is at the top level. If the root group ("Asia") has many subgroups I open it with an Option-click. That opens all the subgroups, but it can take quite a while.

There is sth wrong with your library. Rebuilding your library might help. Have you tried that?

I tried to rebuilt the library, but got the spinning beachball after some time and had to force quit. The result was, I got a new library with 3153 references, the original library has 3233. So it seems the operation did not fully finish.

I'm going to try to create a new library and move references between libraries, i.e. merge the two libraries, and see if that makes any difference.

[Jon]

1. Each group is independent of how you visually organize them. I assume Asia and China are folder, not groups. Just open them with the disclosure triangle to the point where Confucius is visible. Then click on Confucius. If you *select* the Asia folder then Bookends has to perform all of the searches it contains. And of course each one takes some time. So, *open* your folders, don't select them (unless you really want all those searches to be done).

2. If the Rebuild stalls it suggests there really is a problem with the database. Do a Repair first, then a Rebuild.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Philologist]

I assume Asia and China are folder, not groups.

China and all the subgroups are smart folders or smart groups. I thought it was useful to have a one-click option to see all Chinese related stuff in the library.

Repairing and rebuilding the library did not solve the problem, so I decided to create a new library. I'm going to transfer the references to the new library and stark reduce the number of dynamic groups.

By the way, the new library comes with no groups (except the default groups: Author, Editors, Series Title, Keywords.) Is there an option to easily transfer or restore some of my old dynamic groups without having to enter all the search criteria again manually?

[Jon]

Those are not default groups, so I'm not sure what you mean (Term Lists)?

Actual smart groups can be copied/pasted, but only one at a time.

In any case, you don't need to transfer to a new library -- that's what Rebuild does.

As for smart groups, they are like folders -- just open them (click the disclosure triangle -- don't select them.

I think you're not using groups properly. Please zip and upload your library to a server (like Dropbox) and send me the link. I'll how long the Confucius search takes here.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Philologist]

Those are not default groups, so I'm not sure what you mean (Term Lists)?

Yes sorry, you are absolutely right, these are Term Lists.
I guess I'll be using the Term Lists now much more than I used to do in the past.

Talking about Term Lists, could it be that the image on p. 96 in the User Guide (v14.0.6) is wrong? It seems a bit misleading to me.
The last words on on p. 96 in the User Guide (v14.0.6) read: "Here is an example of a Term List of author names," and then an image follows showing the author Alley, MR being selected in the left column; but instead of showing the 4 works by Alley, MR in the right column I see three titles by three *other* authors. Since the author Alley, MR is selected in the left column, I would have expected to see only titles by him in the right column. Is this perhaps a wrong image in the User Guide?

4.png (214.49 KiB) Viewed 2338 times

Or was this changed in v14.0.6? I'm back to v14.0.2 because I find the gray "hint" text in empty fields terribly distracting and outright ugly. If this is not going to change, could it be made optional in the Preferences?

[Jon]

The image is correct. These are scientific papers and, as is true for 99%+ of these, there are multiple authors. Alley is a co-author on the 3 papers in question, not the first author. BTW, in Preferences you can tell Bookends how many authors to show in the Authors column: First, Use et al., First...Last, or All.

You should always see the release notes for every update. Showing hint text is now a Preference option in 14.0.6.

https://www.sonnysoftware.com/updates/u ... story.html

Please don't forget to send me your library so I can see about the original problem in this thread, the long time it takes to show group results.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Philologist]

Alley is a co-author on the 3 papers in question,

Ahh I see, that explains everything. :–)
Don‘t look for Confucius, that was just an ad hoc example I chose because most of my groups are not in English.
Click instead on the folder FACHGEBIETE. Opening that folder takes unusually long time.

Thank you.

[Jon]

I clicked on that folder -- it took < 1 second (a blink) for the results to appear in the reference list.

My internal cache is set to 20 MB, BTW.

I don't think it would make any difference, but what columns are you showing in the reference list?

I can't think of what else might affect the speed with which the search results are returned. Can you try another Mac?

Jon
Sonny Software

[Philologist]

In any case, you don't need to transfer to a new library -- that's what Rebuild does.

Rebuild failed twice. Not all references were transferred when I tried to rebuild, so I had to transfer by creating a new empty library. Not bad after all, because as I added the groups, one by one, I had the opportunity to fix many old and incorrect entries. I have transferred ca. 70% of my groups now, and, knock on wood, working with the new library is much faster than with the old one. I now try to use folders and smart groups instead of smart folders and sub-smart folders. Maybe that makes a difference (?). I will report again when I'm finished.

Actual smart groups can be copied/pasted, but only one at a time.

That's good, but I wish smart folders could also be copied/pasted. That would have saved me a lot of time.

What's the best way to transfer static groups, or rather the content of static groups?

but what columns are you showing in the reference list?

Type, ZuallerErst [first published], Year, Authors, Title, Rating, Series Title, Pages

Can you try another Mac?

Unfortunately not, but after I have transferred all the groups I'm going to create a new, pristine User account, log into that account and see if that makes any difference when I use the old library. I could also try to boot from an external drive with an older system version and see if that makes a difference.

But as I already said, right now everything is going well. I think I have got all the information I need for the time being from you and Dellu. Thank you both.

PS
I have noticed that dragging text from one field to another is not possible in v14.0.6 anymore.

[Jon]

It wouldn't make sense to copy static groups. But you can drag the contents of the group to a different library and, since they are now selected, drop them on the groups pane to create a new static group.

Drag and drop text between fields is fixed for the next update.

Jon
Sonny Software