Bookends is great... but how do I get rid of Word?

[san]

I have replaced Endnote with Bookends... which is great.

Now I want to get rid of Word. Pages works great, but has no real Bookends (or Endnote) support. I need to create complex documents with embedded images (NIH grant proposals). Word is the standard, but has so many quirks I would love to replace it with something closer to a page layout program. Pages fits the bill, but doesn't have native bibliography support.

I looked at Mellel, but it doesn't wrap text around images, which is a must.

Any suggstions of a better word processor that can handle complex documents and also work with Bookends?

[Jon]

Hi san,

I'll let others weigh in on this...but know that Bookends will work with any wp that can export as RTF (even Pages -- although I think that with graphics it exports as RTFD, which Bookends can't scan). I know that Mellel 2.0 will have many new features (such as columns) -- perhaps wrapping text around images as well? You might want to wander over to the Mellel forum and ask...

Jon
Sonny Software

[dave o]

My solution, while perhaps not ideal, works pretty well.

I write up the text in Mellel using Bookends for referencing. A much better combination than Word / Endnote, if only because of the more descriptive temporary citations. It is much easier to determine what a reference is supposed to be if you have the addtional information included in a typical Bookends temporary citation. After formatting the bibliography, I export from Mellel as an RTF file. I then import the RTF file into InDesign, where I wrap the text around all of the images. As an added bonus, I find InDesign is terrific for grants because you can make figures and drag them on and off the 'actual' page. Want to include it? Put it on the page. Not so sure? Throw it on the pasteboard. Plus your graphics actually stay where you put them on the page and the text wraps properly.

Add a few master pages with the embedded PHS files and you're ready to go. Formatting grants couldn't be easier...well, I haven't played with the newest version of InDesign, but it would be terrific if Bookends could scan for references directly within InDesign stories w/o exporting as an RTF first. Maybe then I could do away with "true" word processers entirely (at least for grant apps)!

dave

[Reiner]

I also would recommend Mellel.

Yes, there are some important features still missing. But Mellel is worth to be a bit patient. In the end Mellel will beat every other wordprocessor, I'm sure.

[bvz]

I used the following scheme for preparing a recent grant:

Using the Word version of NIH continuation page, I created the final version of the text with Bookends-inserted citations. I opened the resulting document in Pages and dropped in all the figures and legends. (It is hard to imagine an easier way to combine text and graphics -- the entire process must have taken 15 min.) I also set the number of the first page based on where the text would end up in the grant. I then saved the whole thing as a pdf, opened it in Acrobat, selected the pages in page thumbnail view, and dragged them into the grant (also in pdf thumbnail view).

The ideal would be to write in Pages from the start, but I ran into the .rtfd problem Jon describes. Entering citations in Word was effortless. I especially like being able to write an author's name and date in brackets and have Bookends find the citation for me later instead of having to go back and forth between the citation manager and word processor.

The one problem I encountered was in moving from Word to Pages. Most in-text citations, while correct in Word, appeared in Pages in a wrong font and size and had to be fixed. Perhaps there a solution for this.

[Jon]

The one problem I encountered was in moving from Word to Pages. Most in-text citations, while correct in Word, appeared in Pages in a wrong font and size and had to be fixed. Perhaps there a solution for this.

Hm, the final citation Bookends sends back to Word will assume the style set in the style sheet that the paragraph it is in. Maybe this is a style issue with Pages? I assume you can set style sheets in Pages (haven't done much with that), and if so try to match them with the ones you use in Word and see if that helps.

Jon
Sonny Software

[san again]

Thanks for the suggestions, but the workarounds with Pages or InDesign are just too much. I looked into InDesign, but it is really not a word processor (no headers and footers?). I guess for now I will have to stick with Word, despite all its problems.

Note to Bookends Developers: There are a lot of current Word users that would love to switch to something else (e.g. Pages) if Bookends would support it.

[mgiddings]

I agree wholeheartedly with San. I am seriously considering switching my whole lab of 11 people over to Bookends...Endnote has become more and more buggy with each revision.
However, this lack of Pages support is the main issue holding me back from going with Bookends. I have had many nightmares formatting grants and manuscripts in MS Word, and I love Pages in comparison. But it lacks bibliography software. I've tried Mellel, but was not that keen about the user interface.

So, if you want to sell at least one of those nice 10-person site licenses right away, just incorporate Pages support, and I'll buy!

Thanks for the suggestions, but the workarounds with Pages or InDesign are just too much. I looked into InDesign, but it is really not a word processor (no headers and footers?). I guess for now I will have to stick with Word, despite all its problems.

Note to Bookends Developers: There are a lot of current Word users that would love to switch to something else (e.g. Pages) if Bookends would support it.

[Jon]

So, if you want to sell at least one of those nice 10-person site licenses right away, just incorporate Pages support, and I'll buy!

Ah, if it were only that easy...

Here's an old thread on Bookends and Pages:

http://www.sonnysoftware.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=63

Apple has to decide it want's Pages to be an open and interactive application before any kind of decent integration is likely to be feasible. Mellel and Word are the only word processors on the Mac that have actually done this.

Jon
Sonny Software

[san]

The thread you posted a link to has been viewed more than 800 times. This thread has been viewed more than 160 times.

This is clearly a very popular topic. Maybe support for Pages is worth another try with Apple?

[Jon]

I doubt it would do any good, but anyone interested in seeing Pages opened up to third party applications (at least via AppleEvents) can write to Apple with this request.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Eddie]

I too saw Pages as the solution to NIH style grant applications where imbedded images are a must. It is a wonderful app that way. Much better than Word at handling images with text, while Mellel doesn't even try. I left Apple a message regarding Pages and scripting. Hopefully, Jon, they will make it easier for you with the next version of Pages. If so, it really does some that there are many people, like me, waiting to make the complete switch from Word/Endnote or Word/BE to Pages/BE!

Eddie

[jct]

I registered just to add my "me too" .... I hvae to submit a grant for the Oct deadline and just the thought of struggling with Word + 20 figures again makes me dizzy (and unhappy).

I will be giving Bookends a run-through over the next few weeks and then go the Word/Bookends route. I will also buy a copy of Mellel.

Several of my colleagues at my university were thrilled when they heard about Pages, quite the let-down in the end.

For my next grant I will probably use InDesign +Bookends + Word or Mellel, but I would love to be able to use Pages for ease-of use and image handling.

I will give my $0.02 to Apple.

regards,

JT