mysterious problem with cited pages

Gerben · Post by **Gerben** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:58 pm

Hi,

This might be a support issue but maybe other users have seen it as well..
I suddenly have a problem with cited pages. Normally i put in a citation like this:

{Kopstein and Wittenberg, 2003, Slavic Review, 62 1, 87-109@90}

Which should output like this:

Jeffrey S. Kopstein, and Jason Wittenberg, "Who Voted Communist? Reconsidering the Social Bases of Radicalism in Interwar Poland," Slavic Review 62/1 (2003) 87-109, 90.

Instead i get this:

Jeffrey S. Kopstein, and Jason Wittenberg, "Who Voted Communist? Reconsidering the Social Bases of Radicalism in Interwar Poland," Slavic Review 62/1 (2003), 90.

In other words: the main page numbers are lost. This used to work fine for me and i haven't changed formats (it happens with various formats i tested). Anyway, using a rebuild database and still problem. Any clue what is going on?

Thanks,
Gerben

Post by **Jon** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:23 pm

Hi Gerben,

That's a new feature (in 9.0.2 I think). If you have dedicated pages and cited pages, Bookends will eliminate the regular page and use the cited ones. There's also a feature request to make Bookends actually place the cited pages where the regular page would go:

http://www.sonnysoftware.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=742

What do you think?

Jon
Sonny Software

Gerben · Post by **Gerben** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:58 am

Hi,

Aha. But is there a way to prevent this replacement? I need both the regular pages and the cited ones in my citations, this is crucial for correct referencing in history.

About the other feature request. This would not be so useful for me for the reason mentione above.

Best,
Gerben

Gerben · Post by **Gerben** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:28 am

Just found the relevant portion in the users guide:

"For custom citations that include pages, that field will be superseded by cited pages. For example, if the Pages field contains 1-18 and after a scan the custom citation would normally yield "Smith, 2002, p. 1-18", the use of cittemporary citation (@16) would yield "Smith, 2002, p. 16"). "

To clarify: what i need after scanning is a reference looking like this:

Smith, 2002, p. 1-18, p. 16

Would this somehow be possible?

Gerben

Post by **Jon** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:56 am

Sure. Don't use cited pages. Use the backslash "quote":

{Smith, 2002\ p. 16\}

Jon
Sonny Software

Gerben · Post by **Gerben** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:36 pm

Great, thanks! (and actually nice you even provide support in the weekend..)

One last little detail. I normally use a format with an end dot in it. I notice that when i use the backslash quote, the pages after that quote are placed after the dot.

So, {Smith, 2002, p. 1-18\ p. 16\} looks like:

Smith, 2002, p. 1-18., p. 16

I would like: Smith, 2002, p. 1-18, p. 16.

Is there a way (apart from manually adding the dots) to automate this so that a dot get placed always at the very end (irrespective of whether or not there is a backslah quote with pages)?

Post by **Jon** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:44 pm

Hi Gerben,

No. The backslash "quote" ends the citation (or begins it, but in this case it ends it). Bookends outputs exactly what you type in. So in this case you must provide the concluding period yourself.

Jon
Sonny Software

Gerben · Post by **Gerben** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:49 pm

OK, well that is only a minor detail.

Thanks for the help and a good weekend!

Gerben

danzac · Post by **danzac** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:19 pm

In gerben's case (and I mentioned this elsewhere) I think it would be a good idea to have a formatting character that would force the output of the page range even if there are cited pages. This would be especially useful for gerben, that way he need not remember to use\ for some citations and @ for others. This would also make my request to replace p- with the cited pages anywhere in the format useful, since some may need the page range in the middle of the format and want it output, and then have cited pages at the end.

This replacing of p- with cited pages may fix one of the other problems us SBL guys are having: for journal articles the cited page is affixed at the end of the citation after a colon (not a comma) and ending with a period. If the cited page could replace the p- then I could erase the cited page preferences of , before and . after, and place my commas, periods, and colons in my format.

Post by **Jon** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:14 pm

danzac wrote:In gerben's case (and I mentioned this elsewhere) I think it would be a good idea to have a formatting character that would force the output of the page range even if there are cited pages.

Danny, don't you think it's complicated enough already? I do.

Jon
Sonny Software

danzac · Post by **danzac** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:01 pm

Jon wrote:
Don't you think it's complicated enough already? I do.

I don't, but I could understand how others might think so. Is there an easier workaround that I can't think of? Having 1) the 'forced page range' as well as 2) the cited pages replacing the p- wherever it may be in the format tackles every conceivable problem, as far as I can tell. I can't see #2 adding any problems to those who asked for the replacement feature (no one has chimed in on my forum thread) and #1 is more for someone like gerben (no ref type like gerben's case occurs in SBL so the 'forced page range' character is not really for me but for others).

Just my 2 cents

Post by **Jon** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:05 pm

Adding a new command for every tweak is a bad, bad idea, very Microsoft. Bookends is extremely flexible, and Gerben can achieve what he wants easily by using the backslash quoted text feature. That's what it is for. As for your option #2, I'm leaning towards implementing that, but I'll wait a bit more to hear other opinions.

Jon
Sonny Software

danzac · Post by **danzac** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:52 am

well calling something "very microsoft" is the trump-card for not doing it

I'm glad to hear #2 is probably on its way and as I said, #1 isn't for any scenario I would have anyway.

ttfn