I love Bookends, but one thing that I hope will change with every release is the UI. It feels a little like an old, clunky Carbon or OS 9 application. One thing in particular are the blue buttons in the "toolbar" when adding a new citation. These are untraditional UI elements. Also, the main list view UI could be made to be more "iApp-friendly".
I know, I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. Bookends is still tons better than Endnote on the UI front, but I thought i would ask to see what other people think. And to see if a UI overhaul might be on the table for version 10.
tf
New UI?
The look of these buttons seems fine to me, but I wonder whether the attach button shouldn't be changed to a different kind of interface element. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem to work as a button any more. When you click it you don't get an action as you do with other buttons; you get a dropdown menu. I don't mind dropdown menus and I don't mind having one here, but I think it's a bit inconsistent to have it appear when you click a button.
I suppose it's similar to the PDF button/dropdown in the OS X print dialogue. John Siracusa had a go at that in his review of Tiger http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/20.
There are also the gear buttons that have spread from the 10.3 or 10.4 Finder into lots of applications, including Bookends.
What will happen when you click these is a bit clearer than with the Attach button since they have a down arrow on them. I know the Attach button has an arrow but since it is not on it but at the bottom-right corner, to me that looked like an indication that the button was a normal button and to get a dropdown instead you should click on the separate down arrow.
I'm not sure what the best fix would be. Perhaps a button that works like in previous versions of Bookends and a separate arrow thing, bigger than the current arrow, for the dropdown attachment menu.
I suppose it's similar to the PDF button/dropdown in the OS X print dialogue. John Siracusa had a go at that in his review of Tiger http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/20.
There are also the gear buttons that have spread from the 10.3 or 10.4 Finder into lots of applications, including Bookends.
What will happen when you click these is a bit clearer than with the Attach button since they have a down arrow on them. I know the Attach button has an arrow but since it is not on it but at the bottom-right corner, to me that looked like an indication that the button was a normal button and to get a dropdown instead you should click on the separate down arrow.
I'm not sure what the best fix would be. Perhaps a button that works like in previous versions of Bookends and a separate arrow thing, bigger than the current arrow, for the dropdown attachment menu.
Yes, the triangle indicates a pop-up (down) menu. The new behavior is much better, because it lets you select individual pdfs/images if you have more than one, and you can open the Attachment Inspector. I couldn't place the triangle any closer to the icon without it looking ugly (maybe some of you think it's ugly now). As I said, if anyone has replacements to offer I'm happy to look at them. If not, the icons will probably be redone at some point, but after other things are taken care of.
Jon
Sonny Software
Jon
Sonny Software
Agreed.The new behavior is much better, because it lets you select individual pdfs/images if you have more than one, and you can open the Attachment Inspector.
When you have time, how about just making it look a bit more like the gear button with the arrow thing on the button itself (but with a paper-clip instead of a gear, of course)?
I'd make one if I could, but I know nothing about graphics.
It's only my opinion, but I think that they should look different, since they do different kinds of things.
One possibility would be to have a copy citations button just like now, an attach button, which looks and functions as in previous versions of Bookends, and a gear-style dropdown button.
The reason for having both a standard button and a dedicated dropdown button is that the standard button is a faster way to get to the default action.
One possibility would be to have a copy citations button just like now, an attach button, which looks and functions as in previous versions of Bookends, and a gear-style dropdown button.
The reason for having both a standard button and a dedicated dropdown button is that the standard button is a faster way to get to the default action.
More than just icons...
This is a good discussion; the type that I was hoping to start. But there is something more than just the icons that "feels" weird to me. I think I can better put my finger on it now.
Before I start, Jon, realize that this isn't a critique of you or your work personally. Bookends is great. It helped me finish my Masters thesis and will be intregral to my PhD dissertation. I'm only commenting because I think you're open to suggestions and I think BE could be even better with after revisiting the UI.
I'm sure Jon has been trying to keep up with our other feature requests. While adding features, the UI *might* have been neglected (my hypothesis). The attachment icon is sort of symptom. Functionality changed (for the better!), but the icon maybe should have changed more significantly to reflect Apple UI Guidelines.
Other examples of a "non-Mac feel": The List View doesn't seem to have many native UI widgets. The toolbar isn't a standard toolbar that I can configure, like Mail or Finder, etc. The table isn't a standard UI table. The columns don't resize like Mail, for instance, making it harder to adjust one and then adjust another one without screwing up the width of the first. The "View Groups" with the drop down arrow isn't standard. It is a drop down arrow that activates/deactivates a horizontal UI element.
Looking at Mail and iTunes and Finder, Bookends just doesn't feel the same. I'm sure this is because of legacy code (CodeWarrior toolkit?), but maybe it is time to overhaul it to better take advantage of InterfaceBuilder and the OS X UI widgets.
Respectfully, of couse. ~tf
Before I start, Jon, realize that this isn't a critique of you or your work personally. Bookends is great. It helped me finish my Masters thesis and will be intregral to my PhD dissertation. I'm only commenting because I think you're open to suggestions and I think BE could be even better with after revisiting the UI.
I'm sure Jon has been trying to keep up with our other feature requests. While adding features, the UI *might* have been neglected (my hypothesis). The attachment icon is sort of symptom. Functionality changed (for the better!), but the icon maybe should have changed more significantly to reflect Apple UI Guidelines.
Other examples of a "non-Mac feel": The List View doesn't seem to have many native UI widgets. The toolbar isn't a standard toolbar that I can configure, like Mail or Finder, etc. The table isn't a standard UI table. The columns don't resize like Mail, for instance, making it harder to adjust one and then adjust another one without screwing up the width of the first. The "View Groups" with the drop down arrow isn't standard. It is a drop down arrow that activates/deactivates a horizontal UI element.
Looking at Mail and iTunes and Finder, Bookends just doesn't feel the same. I'm sure this is because of legacy code (CodeWarrior toolkit?), but maybe it is time to overhaul it to better take advantage of InterfaceBuilder and the OS X UI widgets.
Respectfully, of couse. ~tf
Hi tf,
Thanks for your comments. What you're referring to isn't really dealing with Apple UI guidelines, but Cocoa interface elements. Bookends is Carbon, not Cocoa. I've been adding in more Cocoa-like interface elements (like the find textbox with the magnifying glass) where they make sense, and will continue to do so where it makes sense. One particular point: the triangle for View Groups is not a drop down arrow, it is a disclosure triangle, a standard UI widget that is intended for toggling interface elements, which is what Bookends uses it for.
Jon
Sonny Software
Thanks for your comments. What you're referring to isn't really dealing with Apple UI guidelines, but Cocoa interface elements. Bookends is Carbon, not Cocoa. I've been adding in more Cocoa-like interface elements (like the find textbox with the magnifying glass) where they make sense, and will continue to do so where it makes sense. One particular point: the triangle for View Groups is not a drop down arrow, it is a disclosure triangle, a standard UI widget that is intended for toggling interface elements, which is what Bookends uses it for.
Jon
Sonny Software
I understand that it is Carbon, but even Carbon apps can have standard tool bars and TableViews. The Finder is a Carbon application, for instance. So is iTunes. How is the table being drawn right now? Resizing the List View window on my Intel iMac feels slow (new DB, so only 4 refs in view). Is the table being custom drawn or using a CodeWarrior toolkit?
Also, iTunes and Mail both have groups of thing (playlists and folder) but they don't use a disclosure triangle (thanks for the term correction). They have a resize handle that I can grab and resize. And disclosure triangles normally grow a window down, not out. Using it for the View format at the bottom of the List View makes sense.
tf
Also, iTunes and Mail both have groups of thing (playlists and folder) but they don't use a disclosure triangle (thanks for the term correction). They have a resize handle that I can grab and resize. And disclosure triangles normally grow a window down, not out. Using it for the View format at the bottom of the List View makes sense.
tf
Toolbar classes
I recently read that BE is a RealBasic application. I don't know if toolbar classes are built into the RB yet, but there some classes out there:
http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/19456
http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/19051
Don't know if these are useful, but I thought they might help. They seem to act like standard Mac toolbars.
Thanks again, Jon.
http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/19456
http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/19051
Don't know if these are useful, but I thought they might help. They seem to act like standard Mac toolbars.
Thanks again, Jon.