Big compliments for this new version, Jon! It's a paid upgrade, but it will be a pleasure to send you the upgrade fee!
Having said that, I must confess that my first reaction was identical to Gerson's: "where has the keywords field gone?" Like Gerson (and like many others, I presume), I use keywords every minute, so I really would like the keywords field to get back its prominent position; or to get an even more prominent position than they already had.
In my opinion, the only bibliographical information fields to which one should have immediate visual access are Author / Editor, Title, Year, City, Publisher and Pages. The fundamental non-bibliographical fields that should be immediately visible are Keywords, Abstract and Notes. All other fields are far less important; and perhaps it would not be a bad idea to make them all collapsible.
And as to the drawer: sometimes it reminds me of the small shrinked wings of certain animals which in the course of evolution have lost the ability to fly. I very rarely use it.
And why not transform the right part of the reference window in a pane similar to the information pane of the list window, with (for instance) the keywords in the upper part and the notes in the lower part?
Bookends 10 window layout-- bring back the keywords field
Unfortunately for Jon, what is "essential" is highly personal and subjective. For example, when I download a reference, the Notes field usually gets filled with extraneous information, such as the author's name, and I like to edit that stuff immediately. I almost never touch the keywords field.matthias wrote:When testing Bookends 10 two days ago, I felt, like the original poster, that I wanted the keywords field back in the main tab.
But I am not so sure about it anymore. First it is a priority for me to have all those fields that include (essential) bibliographic information of a reference in one place; i.e. in the main tab. Because this is what I enter or edit (after downloading form a library) in one "run". The Notes, Abstract or Keywords fields don't fall in that category though. All three fields rather hold information that materializes in another step of the research process
Hi,Eckius wrote:And why not transform the right part of the reference window in a pane similar to the information pane of the list window, with (for instance) the keywords in the upper part and the notes in the lower part?
A pane (as in the List View) wouldn't work in the reference window because you can't "pop inward", so to speak (the fields are fixed width).
One conceivable option I'm toying with would allow the user to specify what goes in the second tab: Keywords, Notes, or Abstract. But I'm not sure that's a great idea, either.
It's my impression that with the exception of one individual, it seems that Keywords are valued in the main tab and Notes are OK in the second tab. In any case, as I said (and Matthias seconded) I'm not going to do anything immediately but think about it, and let others think about it too, and revisit the issue when everyone has had a chance to work with the new interface for a while.
Jon
Sonny Software
Does that mean I could, in effect, pick which two fields show up at the bottom of the main page? If so, then great.One conceivable option I'm toying with would allow the user to specify what goes in the second tab: Keywords, Notes, or Abstract. But I'm not sure that's a great idea, either.
I also think the idea of being able to edit keywords, notes, and abstracts in list view is a great idea; that would solve my problem.
The capacity to define a new format to control display in the info pane of list view is first rate-- thank you.
I'll throw my two cents in for what its worth
First and foremost, this is a kick-ass upgrade. The competition should be shaking in their boots!
Eckius,
If often depends on the area of study you are in that dictates what the "essential" fields are and therefore want "immediate access" you want. I would have to add at least 3 to 4 fields to your list.
I really like what Matthias had to say. Abstract, Notes, and Keywords (and don't forget ratings now too!) are the fields that are most likely to be altered after the citation is initially entered. I would really like to see the ability to edit all of these fields in the List view in the not-too-distant future. On this note, I think it would be great to have a shortcut to assign ratings in the List view as well (like apple-shift-1,2,3,4,5). If this were implemented, I would be who would put the abstract in the second tab, since I would be able to then view it in the concise view and edit it in the List view. You also have to remember that at least some of us use the abstract for reviews of the book, and perhaps on occasion, if it is an encyclopedia article or something, we put the whole article in the abstract field. This makes a dedicated tab much better, as the 400 word ideal size is far exceeded in these cases.
Jon, are the second and third tab considered "fields"? It doesn't seem like it, cause when I change the name of the keywords field label in the preferences, the tab name stays the same (which leads me to wonder what effect the change in the preferences is having). If the second tab were considered a field unto itself, this may solve the problem, as people can customize the second tab and 2 bottom fields to their liking (of course this may lead some to have two tabs called notes, but as you said Notes editing is available in many places so the third tab may be unnecessary).
Okay I'm going to play with Bookends some more.
First and foremost, this is a kick-ass upgrade. The competition should be shaking in their boots!
Eckius,
If often depends on the area of study you are in that dictates what the "essential" fields are and therefore want "immediate access" you want. I would have to add at least 3 to 4 fields to your list.
I really like what Matthias had to say. Abstract, Notes, and Keywords (and don't forget ratings now too!) are the fields that are most likely to be altered after the citation is initially entered. I would really like to see the ability to edit all of these fields in the List view in the not-too-distant future. On this note, I think it would be great to have a shortcut to assign ratings in the List view as well (like apple-shift-1,2,3,4,5). If this were implemented, I would be who would put the abstract in the second tab, since I would be able to then view it in the concise view and edit it in the List view. You also have to remember that at least some of us use the abstract for reviews of the book, and perhaps on occasion, if it is an encyclopedia article or something, we put the whole article in the abstract field. This makes a dedicated tab much better, as the 400 word ideal size is far exceeded in these cases.
Jon, are the second and third tab considered "fields"? It doesn't seem like it, cause when I change the name of the keywords field label in the preferences, the tab name stays the same (which leads me to wonder what effect the change in the preferences is having). If the second tab were considered a field unto itself, this may solve the problem, as people can customize the second tab and 2 bottom fields to their liking (of course this may lead some to have two tabs called notes, but as you said Notes editing is available in many places so the third tab may be unnecessary).
Okay I'm going to play with Bookends some more.
~I swore to myself that if I ever got to walk around the room as manager people would laugh as they saw me coming and applaud as I walked away~
Hi Danny,
I'll make a few comments (kind of rushed, I'm afraid):
All the convenient Command-Modifier-# shortcuts are taken. You can assign ratings in the List View with a right click, though, which is pretty convenient.
The second and third tabs are indeed fields. I may have forgotten to update the tab name if you change keywords, I'll have to see.
And thanks for your comments on the upgrade. It has the majority of features and UI changes that people have been asking for for a long time. And some unasked for features, like Refbase, that I think a certain percent are going to love.
Jon
Sonny Software
I'll make a few comments (kind of rushed, I'm afraid):
All the convenient Command-Modifier-# shortcuts are taken. You can assign ratings in the List View with a right click, though, which is pretty convenient.
The second and third tabs are indeed fields. I may have forgotten to update the tab name if you change keywords, I'll have to see.
And thanks for your comments on the upgrade. It has the majority of features and UI changes that people have been asking for for a long time. And some unasked for features, like Refbase, that I think a certain percent are going to love.
Jon
Sonny Software
I try to keep my hands off of the mouse as much as possible, but its good to know it is at least possible in the List view.Jon wrote: All the convenient Command-Modifier-# shortcuts are taken. You can assign ratings in the List View with a right click, though, which is pretty convenient.
What about command-control-option-1,2,3,4,5 ?
~I swore to myself that if I ever got to walk around the room as manager people would laugh as they saw me coming and applaud as I walked away~
This is a fantastic upgrade. Being able to read the attached files this way makes my life a lot easier, and its also great that I'm able to make notes while I'm reading the file.
As regards the keywords debate. If the choice is either notes or keywords, I'd rather have the keywords in the separate tab and keep the notes in the main view. This will work better for me eventually (once I get used to the change from BE 9, that is).
As regards the keywords debate. If the choice is either notes or keywords, I'd rather have the keywords in the separate tab and keep the notes in the main view. This will work better for me eventually (once I get used to the change from BE 9, that is).
I usually have a long list of keywords, so I love the enlarged tab view, which allows me to see all my keywords at a glance. For me, the current interface looks great, but if it were to be changed, here's what I hope will not happen in a future update:
1. It would be a nightmare if the drawer were turned into a tab. I use fields in the drawer to hold very important bibliographic information, and I can't imagine having to switch between two tabs while entering a reference.
2. It would be similarly unbearable if the keywords field were moved into the drawer-- I would need to enlarge the field every time I try to add in keywords.
I also like Matthias's point about the abstract-notes-keyword combo. It would be great if we could access these three fields all at once from the list view. (Maybe using movable separators, similar to the way the abstract and the notes fields are displayed in the reference view?)
Thanks, Jon, for the fantastic update. I'm a relatively new user of Bookends, and I'm ever more satisfied with the software now!
1. It would be a nightmare if the drawer were turned into a tab. I use fields in the drawer to hold very important bibliographic information, and I can't imagine having to switch between two tabs while entering a reference.
2. It would be similarly unbearable if the keywords field were moved into the drawer-- I would need to enlarge the field every time I try to add in keywords.
I also like Matthias's point about the abstract-notes-keyword combo. It would be great if we could access these three fields all at once from the list view. (Maybe using movable separators, similar to the way the abstract and the notes fields are displayed in the reference view?)
Thanks, Jon, for the fantastic update. I'm a relatively new user of Bookends, and I'm ever more satisfied with the software now!
Hi mxd, thanks for the kind words.
So you like the status quo, then?
As for the three fields in the List View info pane, what I was thinking of was allowing them, but one at a time (like you have the Concise or Notes view now, but allow Abstract or Keywords). I think all three at once would be too much to cram in (splitters or not).
Jon
Sonny Software
So you like the status quo, then?
As for the three fields in the List View info pane, what I was thinking of was allowing them, but one at a time (like you have the Concise or Notes view now, but allow Abstract or Keywords). I think all three at once would be too much to cram in (splitters or not).
Jon
Sonny Software
What about concise, notes, abstract/keywords (the latter two also being editable in the List view).Jon wrote:Hi mxd, thanks for the kind words.
So you like the status quo, then?
As for the three fields in the List View info pane, what I was thinking of was allowing them, but one at a time (like you have the Concise or Notes view now, but allow Abstract or Keywords). I think all three at once would be too much to cram in (splitters or not).
Jon
Sonny Software
~I swore to myself that if I ever got to walk around the room as manager people would laugh as they saw me coming and applaud as I walked away~
Personally, this is what I was hoping for a long time now, and I agree with others that keywords are critical. Yet, I find them now much better implemented. It would be nice to have a "combo" as advocated earlier, but only as an additional view option, not to replace the current solution, which works much better for me for the same reason that others have mentioned here.
The dust is beginning to settle, I suppose.
I don't use keywords very much, so haven't missed their absence in the default view. I use the abstract field on the majority of references, and the notes field sometimes.
One possibility: there is a space under the drawer where a keynotes field could go. There would be space for quite a lot of keywords there.
I don't use keywords very much, so haven't missed their absence in the default view. I use the abstract field on the majority of references, and the notes field sometimes.
One possibility: there is a space under the drawer where a keynotes field could go. There would be space for quite a lot of keywords there.