I suggested that the keywords could go in the drawer, but I recall somewhere in this long thread someone was quite against that. Frankly, I think most people like having the Keywords in a dedicated tab and a flexible Notes/Abstract arrangement in the main tab. But we can revisit in a few weeks.
Jon
Sonny Software
Bookends 10 window layout-- bring back the keywords field
And as you said Jon, the other tabs are actually fields, so renaming them in the preferences should rename the tab as well, right?
I rename fields to my needs all the time, with this type of flexibility, I don't see a major need for change. Just adjust the bottom 2 large fields and the second tab to one's needs.
I rename fields to my needs all the time, with this type of flexibility, I don't see a major need for change. Just adjust the bottom 2 large fields and the second tab to one's needs.
~I swore to myself that if I ever got to walk around the room as manager people would laugh as they saw me coming and applaud as I walked away~
What's really important is to be able to edit keywords without having to click to some other place and then click back again to the main view. How this get arranged doesn't really matter to me-- let me swap the notes and keywords fields, add space under the drawer, whatever.
But having them in a different tab that requires additional work to see, edit, and restore the main view is a real downer.
But having them in a different tab that requires additional work to see, edit, and restore the main view is a real downer.
I haven't got the time to download and look into the new version of Bookend, but after I read some of the comments in this thread, I had a look at the screenshot (regarding the keyword) at the sonnysoftware.com and I think I have to agree that it's very important (for me anyway) to be able to have easy and visual access to the keywords with Bookend. I'm rely a great deal to the keywords when I'm making (smart and/or static) groups in the List View.Gerson wrote:What's really important is to be able to edit keywords without having to click to some other place and then click back again to the main view. How this get arranged doesn't really matter to me-- let me swap the notes and keywords fields, add space under the drawer, whatever.
But having them in a different tab that requires additional work to see, edit, and restore the main view is a real downer.
Please bring back the keyword field to it's former place.
A large portion of my citations use the editors field, so its definitely not trivial.
Is it really that inconvienent to lay the fields out how you want them? The other tabs are their own field, so arrange them how you want.
And hitting command-2 to go to keywords isn't really that bad, is it?
Is it really that inconvienent to lay the fields out how you want them? The other tabs are their own field, so arrange them how you want.
And hitting command-2 to go to keywords isn't really that bad, is it?
~I swore to myself that if I ever got to walk around the room as manager people would laugh as they saw me coming and applaud as I walked away~
Please bring back the keywords field
My 2¢ regarding the keywords field:
To me and for my interaction with Bookends, it is extremely important that the keywords field be on the same "page" as the notes or abstract fields. I add my entries by hand (while I may be a luddite, the fact is that many of my references aren't available for download and don't come with ready made "abstracts"). I enter the keywords from the important words in my notes or abstract fields (which I also enter by hand after having read the article/book/manuscript/instrument/etc).
It is *extremely* inconvenient for me to switch between two pages (even with the command-2 shortcut) to fill in the keywords:
Whereas I used to enter the keywords while I looked at the abstract, now, after typing the abstract, I have either to write down the various keywords, to copy-and-paste them, or to perform some other intermediate step, hit cmd-2, enter the keywords, and hit cmd-2 to look again at the abstract to make sure I have the relevant keywords.
I have been using Bookends 10 for a few days now and have not become used to it.
For me, frankly, this is a "deal breaker". I have not paid for my upgrade from Bookends 9, and probably won't if I can't get the keywords field on the same page as either the abstract or the notes fields.
Is there no way to customize the layout so that I (and other users who wanted it) could have, for example, the abstract and keywords fields at the bottom (switching the keywords for the notes fields)?
Best,
Darin
To me and for my interaction with Bookends, it is extremely important that the keywords field be on the same "page" as the notes or abstract fields. I add my entries by hand (while I may be a luddite, the fact is that many of my references aren't available for download and don't come with ready made "abstracts"). I enter the keywords from the important words in my notes or abstract fields (which I also enter by hand after having read the article/book/manuscript/instrument/etc).
It is *extremely* inconvenient for me to switch between two pages (even with the command-2 shortcut) to fill in the keywords:
Whereas I used to enter the keywords while I looked at the abstract, now, after typing the abstract, I have either to write down the various keywords, to copy-and-paste them, or to perform some other intermediate step, hit cmd-2, enter the keywords, and hit cmd-2 to look again at the abstract to make sure I have the relevant keywords.
I have been using Bookends 10 for a few days now and have not become used to it.
For me, frankly, this is a "deal breaker". I have not paid for my upgrade from Bookends 9, and probably won't if I can't get the keywords field on the same page as either the abstract or the notes fields.
Is there no way to customize the layout so that I (and other users who wanted it) could have, for example, the abstract and keywords fields at the bottom (switching the keywords for the notes fields)?
Best,
Darin
Two separate approaches come to mind after reading the rather lengthy discussion here.
1. Would it be possible to increase the vertical size of the reference window? As others have noted, it is not necessary to have a large space for keywords, so perhaps the addition of a long field, running horizontally could be added in a taller window.
2. At the risk of revealing my ignorance, does it make sense to separate keywords and notes? As someone else mentioned, once keywords are entered, I rarely go back to them, so the question of having them on the first tab is simply one of convenience. However, I use keywords like tags on del.icio.us or on blog posts. Following that same paradigm, I could easily see myself putting keywords at the top of the notes field followed by my notes. The only drawback I can see is that we'd lose the auto-complete of keywords that helps consistency. Perhaps a delimiter like these <> could mark keywords and invoke the auto-complete system?
Just some more fuel to the fire. I must say that I think Jon's suggestion of using the new system of a while was wise. I do miss immediate access to the keywords field, but it's not the onerous ordeal I feared.
1. Would it be possible to increase the vertical size of the reference window? As others have noted, it is not necessary to have a large space for keywords, so perhaps the addition of a long field, running horizontally could be added in a taller window.
2. At the risk of revealing my ignorance, does it make sense to separate keywords and notes? As someone else mentioned, once keywords are entered, I rarely go back to them, so the question of having them on the first tab is simply one of convenience. However, I use keywords like tags on del.icio.us or on blog posts. Following that same paradigm, I could easily see myself putting keywords at the top of the notes field followed by my notes. The only drawback I can see is that we'd lose the auto-complete of keywords that helps consistency. Perhaps a delimiter like these <> could mark keywords and invoke the auto-complete system?
Just some more fuel to the fire. I must say that I think Jon's suggestion of using the new system of a while was wise. I do miss immediate access to the keywords field, but it's not the onerous ordeal I feared.
I would be willing to try this. When looking at the reference, is there a key combination to open the drawer?Jon wrote:You make no mention of the suggestion that Keywords be located in the drawer. That seems a sensible solution to me.
Jon
Sonny Software
For me, I would like to be able to get to the keywords field without using the mouse (the cmd-2 is fine for this) and to see the main page while entering the keywords.
Could we make the keywords field open in its own window, as the other fields do when you click on the field name? Perhaps, leave the keywords as its own page, but allow the cmd-2 keystroke to open the window while still showing the main page (reserve the keywords page for people who "click" on the keywords tab). You could do the same with the Notes field (cmd-3 would open the Notes window, while clicking on the tab would change to the Notes page).
Just one luddite's thoughts.
Best,
Darin
I'll give it a try and come back and give a comment (as soon as I have the time to do it, quite busy right now).Jon wrote:No, that's not going to happen. The window is compact and symmetrical now. I'd ask that you actually use it for a while and then comment. Perhaps the drawer location will be the best solution...
Jon
Sonny Software
There is only one thread in this forum that is longer than this one. Guess what it is about? … Exactly, field entry GUI 
Enjoy:
http://www.sonnysoftware.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=538
PS: When we revisit this in a while, I would propose that we carefully craft a good poll with all necessary but not too many options. Otherwise it will be very hard to trace what is going on quantity-wise. Not that a poll would offer a solution; consense is definitely better, and Jon has the last word anyway
Enjoy:
http://www.sonnysoftware.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=538
PS: When we revisit this in a while, I would propose that we carefully craft a good poll with all necessary but not too many options. Otherwise it will be very hard to trace what is going on quantity-wise. Not that a poll would offer a solution; consense is definitely better, and Jon has the last word anyway
I eventually did have some spare time. I downloaded the new Bookend 10 and tried it (have not bought it yet though).macsailor wrote:I'll give it a try and come back and give a comment (as soon as I have the time to do it, quite busy right now).Jon wrote:No, that's not going to happen. The window is compact and symmetrical now. I'd ask that you actually use it for a while and then comment. Perhaps the drawer location will be the best solution...
Jon
Sonny Software
The new GUI is not that bad after all. I have realized (just by trying the new application for some minutes) that it suits me fine. The "new" way to handle the keyword, is quite good actually.
I give my vote for the new GUI and that includes the new way of handling the keywords. I believe Jon has made a good work on this new version of Bookend and the decision to move the keywords was the right one.