ciatation and page field...

[hl]

It might be a silly question, quit, but I just spend two hours trying to get it work, so I’ll appreaciate any guidance. I write in legal field with citations in footnotes; I made a new format to suit my needs and although it took me some time I was impressed with the Booksends flexibility and its corraboration with Mellel.

Now I have problem with ciations / pages.

Example of a formatted citation as it should appear in the bibiliography but also in a footnote:
Akhil R. Amar, 'Fourth Amendment First Principles', (1994) 107 Harvard Law Review 767.

Last field (“767â€

[Jon]

Hi,

It works for me (the page is left out if you have cited pages in the citation). Perhaps you can send me your format, zipped, and I'll take a look.

Jon
Sonny Software

[hl]

Jon,
I'm not sure we talk about the same problem. I also tried other formats - not only my own - same problem: if the citation format in the text / footnotes includes pages (which for journals is the rule in legal citations) then any manual entry through @ replaces those instead of adding to them.

[Jon]

Ah, I read your post backwards, sorry!

This is a feature, not a bug! Bookends is behaving correctly. If you entered "cited pages", they will override the pages field. This was a feature request by a number of users, and it makes sense to me.

If you want both the pages field AND a specified range of pages, use "quoted text", as in

{temp citation info\, at pp. 812-901\}

Jon
Sonny Software

[hl]

Quoted text! Makes sense. Thanks Jon for this prompt help.

Just another minor issue: I noticed that in cases I will use quoted text \ at p. 33.\ I'll get a period mark "." before " at p. xy.", instead of a ", at xxx" - since in the style format I use "p." at the end. In case I delete the "." in the formatting then I need to add a "." manually as a quoted text for every reference where I don't add manual entry pages. Is this correct or is there an esay way to solve this? After this question I promise to get back to re-read the bookends User's Guide.

[Jon]

Hm, I'm not sure I follow fully what you want as the final output. If you always want a period after the footnote, yes, you'll have to enter it as part of the quoted text. But I think I'm missing something...

Jon
Sonny Software

[hl]

Thanks again Jon. I think you answered my question. I want my citation to always end with a period. If I set this in the formatting then I get in trouble with double punctuation when entering quoted text that should be have a preceding comma and not a period. Absent an automatic option to resolve conflict of double punctuation (which I don't see how it could work anyway) there is not much to do.

[Jon]

Not necessarily. Bookends has automatic clean-up of inappropriate punctuation (e.g. two periods resolve to one). What undesirable punctuation are you running into when you use quoted text? And what is the format call for and how are you entering the citation?

Jon
Sonny Software

[hl]

My simple format for journal articles is: "a, 't', (d) v f p."

This will result in a correct footnote quotation when I quote the whole piece:

"Akhil R. Amar, 'Fourth Amendment First Principles', (1994) 107 Harvard Law Review 767."

But when I need to add quted text to specify pages - as you advised me - and manually add "\, at p. 800.\" then what I get is a problem with double punctuation:

"Akhil R. Amar, 'Fourth Amendment First Principles', (1994) 107 Harvard Law Review 767., at. 800." (period followed by comma).

Is there a way to resolve this (except by deleting the final period in the format and then adding it manually as quoted text when needed)?

[Jon]

I think that's the only solution. I thought about having ., resolve to a comma automatically, but there are times it is a legitimate construct, as in "…example1, example2, etc.,…"

Jon
Sonny Software

[hl]

I see.

Perhaps it would make sense in the future to have a "global" (separate from the formatting line) option where one could force a specific punctuation / period at the END of citation - in case the formatting style or the quoted text would result in different punctuation the conflict could be resolved in favour of one or the other; in case the formatting style would not result in punctuation one would be added according to "global" option.

Perhaps I'm proposing a micro issue not worth a second thought, but I guess at least in various legal citations in footnotes this addition would make sense.

ps
Jon - I'm rather fresh to Bookends - but have to say with none of the other software product I have/had I never experienced such a prompt and excellent support from a developer as I (and see others on the forum) get for Bookends.

[JAMiller6620]

I am resurrecting a thread because I think it applies to my situation and I wanted to see if anything has changed in two years.

I am inserting references into Scrivener, which I then import into Mellel and convert text to citations. My question has to do with formatting.

The references I use often have punctuation following them, such as a comma followed by a comment pertinent to that reference. E.g., Crenshaw, Wisdom, 69, also states . . . . The problem is that I cannot find a way to not print the period at the end of the reference when it is followed by other punctuation, so my output looks as follows: Crenshaw, Wisdom, 69., also states . . . .

Is this still something which must be edited after scanning the document?

[Jon]

Hi,

Probably. Bookends doesn't know what is outside of the citation (that's the word processor's domain). So if your citation ends with a period, and the text immediately after it begins with a comma, you'll get .,

Jon
Sonny Software

[Jon]

Actually, you can avoid this problem by not using cited pages, but by using quoted text:

{Crenshaw, Wisdom, 2009\, 69}

Jon
Sonny Software

[jmckeown]

Hi - just checking that I have got this right:
when a page from an article or chapter is cited
and the format requires that both the page range
of the whole article, and then the page cited, be
listed, is quoted text the way to do it?

> from 2007 > "If you want both the pages field AND a specified range of pages, use "quoted text", as in
{temp citation info\, at pp. 812-901\}

regards, John