Sonny Software

Hi,

Is there a way to bring up the most recently added references?

It has happened a few times now that I have imported references and then for various reasons lost then from the hits list. At that point it doesn't seem to be an easy way to bring up the added references and it can be a real pain to locate them. Or have I missed something?

A 'date added' tag would be nice, hidden or visible, this would make it possible to create smart folders that show the most recent additions.

Best,
Niklas

niklas wrote:A 'date added' tag would be nice, hidden or visible, this would make it possible to create smart folders that show the most recent additions.

Hi Niklas,

You can have the date automatically added on import if you like. This option is in the Misc tab of the import filter. You can insert date, or date and time.

Jon
Sonny Software

Jon wrote:
You can have the date automatically added on import if you like. This option is in the Misc tab of the import filter. You can insert date, or date and time.

Jon
Sonny Software

Thanks for the tip! That was cool. But when I add a ref manually, I guess I would have to enter a date myself...?

Niklas

Yes, you would.

Jon
Sonny Software

How about a menu command that will insert the current date and/or time into the currently active text field?

I could then name an unused field "Date Added" and enter in the date as I'm importing it.

I agree with the original poster that adding the date/time automatically (as an option) would be useful. If the user wanted this, a field could be selected. If the field was already used, the user could select whether he wanted to replace the contents of the field, or insert the date/time either at the beginning or end of the contents of the field. If the user didn't want this, there would be no change.

prop wrote:How about a menu command that will insert the current date and/or time into the currently active text field?

I could then name an unused field "Date Added" and enter in the date as I'm importing it.

You can already do this when importing.

I agree with the original poster that adding the date/time automatically (as an option) would be useful. If the user wanted this, a field could be selected. If the field was already used, the user could select whether he wanted to replace the contents of the field, or insert the date/time either at the beginning or end of the contents of the field. If the user didn't want this, there would be no change.

If I added this I think it would be more along the lines of Insert Date & Time at the insertion point.

Note that this feature would not be as useful as you might think -- since dates are alphanumeric, you can't do a search based on relative times (i.e. all refs entered after a particular date/time).

Jon
Sonny Software

Jon wrote: Note that this feature would not be as useful as you might think -- since dates are alphanumeric, you can't do a search based on relative times (i.e. all refs entered after a particular date/time).

Hmm, I guess you are right. I suppose what would work was an automatically added incremental number. That would at least allow sorting on date added, but it would be a somewhat ugly solution...?

I was originally thinking along the lines of iTunes or iPhoto. Now that you have an equivalent of "smart playlists" it would be nice to have more options to create these groups by, and this is one that I would personally find very useful. The "date added" wouldn't necessarily have to be visible at all (although it wouldn't hurt), it could be some kind of tag or meta data hardwired to the post in the database. The important thing would be the possibility of using it to create "smart groups" a la iTunes.

I think the concept of smart groups is very exciting by the way, and very promising. There are a lot of things that should be possible to do with them.

Thanks,
Niklas

niklas wrote:Hmm, I guess you are right. I suppose what would work was an automatically added incremental number. That would at least allow sorting on date added, but it would be a somewhat ugly solution...?

You have that now -- the relative reference number in the database. New refs are always added at the end (unless you Insert).

I was originally thinking along the lines of iTunes or iPhoto. Now that you have an equivalent of "smart playlists" it would be nice to have more options to create these groups by, and this is one that I would personally find very useful. The "date added" wouldn't necessarily have to be visible at all (although it wouldn't hurt), it could be some kind of tag or meta data hardwired to the post in the database. The important thing would be the possibility of using it to create "smart groups" a la iTunes.

OK, noted. You do know that you can import to the Hits List? So a workaround is to import to the Hits List, and if you want to keep those around you could make a new static group from the Hits List. Not ideal for what you want, but it is an option you might not have known about.

Jon
Sonny Software

Jon wrote:

niklas wrote:Hmm, I guess you are right. I suppose what would work was an automatically added incremental number. That would at least allow sorting on date added, but it would be a somewhat ugly solution...?

You have that now -- the relative reference number in the database. New refs are always added at the end (unless you Insert).

OK, now I feel a bit stupid... How do I sort on this? I haven't even seen a "relative reference number"...

...

Jon wrote: OK, noted. You do know that you can import to the Hits List? So a workaround is to import to the Hits List, and if you want to keep those around you could make a new static group from the Hits List. Not ideal for what you want, but it is an option you might not have known about.

Yeah, thanks, actually that's what I am doing right now... It works, as long as I remember to move them to the static "waiting room" before next import...

Just open the reference window and you'll see (at the top) Reference x of y (and a slider that lets you move quickly, or a stepper that lets you move one at a time).

You can Refs -> Select References -> Select Range. Once in the hits list, you can sort them.

Jon
Sonny Software

Jon wrote:Just open the reference window and you'll see (at the top) Reference x of y (and a slider that lets you move quickly, or a stepper that lets you move one at a time).

You can Refs -> Select References -> Select Range. Once in the hits list, you can sort them.

Jon
Sonny Software

Many thanks! I'll give this a try.

Niklas

Did anything ever come from the suggestion to have the "date entered" hard-wired into each reference as a permanent tag, even if generally inaccessible from the fields?

The suggestion mentioned above, of being able to set smart groups with relative dates, would be a fruitful feature for those of us who use Bookends + Devonthink pro.

DTpro, as you might now, allows one to import Bibtex references into DTpro as "sheets". A long standing discussion in the Devonthink Forums has been about automatic updating between one's Bookends Database and the sheets in one's DTpro database. Barring this, a manual work-around that has occurred to me would be to have Bookends collect all references entered from date X to date Y into a smart group with such settings. Then, export those as Bibtex, import into DTpro as a new sheet, and then manually cut and paste those into one's previously created bibliographic sheet.

However, this wouldn't reflect modifications in previously entered references in Bookends. So, another option would be to have a way to collect all references that had been modified (including those added) from date X to date Y.

The problem with the solution provided by Jon (using the reference number) is that the number changes if one of the references is deleted.

At the end of the day, it would be nice if the good people of Devonthink and of Bookends (namely, Jon!) respectively could find a way to have automatic updating of those bibliographic sheets, whether using resources such as Linkback, or other ways. Many academic users of both pieces of software would be most grateful!

Until then, are either of the above two proposals currently possible somehow? Thanks in advance.

Bookends can't collect references based on relative dates, because it doesn't know what a date is. Searches are simply alphanumeric. This is a byproduct of the fact that you can (and people and data sources do) enter dates in many different formats.

I suppose you could use one of the user-defined fields for a permanent record of date (either as the actual date, inserted by Bookends if you like) or as the record number (which won't change in the user-defined field if you delete a reference).

Jon
Sonny Software

...then how about holding hands with the developers of DevonThink, and seeing if a way to synchronize becomes possible, especially with Dt's upcoming overhaul of the way their database works?

I'm sure what I'm mentioning is not as easy as it seems, but if you do a quick search for Bookends in the Devonthink forum, and vice versa here, you'll find there's quite a few people who would be most grateful for such a feature: Bookends as reference database, DTpro as research note/pdf database, with the synchronizing sheets in DT as where they meet.

How 'bout it? Any hope?

Hope, sure. But fulfillment? I don't know.

Have you contacted them with a request. I have found that this sort of thing only works when *both* parties really want to get it done (which is why the Bookends/Mellel collaboration has gone so well). If they contact us with such a request I would certainly look into it seriously.

Jon
Sonny Software