Avoiding author repetition in note citations

[frvs]

Hi all,

How do I avoid name repetition when I have two or more consecutive citations of works by the same author in a note? While use of % is fine for text citations, its is overkill for notes insofar as it eliminates titles as well as names and leaves only the date. For example, I would like to achieve something like this:

Sigmund Freud, Art and Literature, ed. Albert Dickson (Harmondsworth: Penguin Books, 1990), 360; On Metapsychology, ed. Angela Richards (Harmondsworth: Penguin Books, 1991), 308–11.

But I'm clueless on how to proceed. Thanks for any hint.

[Jon]

Sorry, I can't think of any way of doing that automatically. Maybe someone else can come up with something.

Jon
Sonny Software

[frvs]

Jon, thanks for the reply.

This would be a mighty handy feature though... Imagine two repeated citations of a single author, the first citation being secondary and the second one being primary. Actually, here is an example of how BE presently handles such a situation (Chicago A, modified):

Freud, Metapsychology, 331; Sigmund Freud, New Introductory Lectures on Psychoanalysis, ed. James Strachey, trans. James Strachey (Harmondsworth: Penguin Books, 1991), 127.

Looks pretty amateurish, right? Do you suppose there is hope for some improvement here? Ideally, something automated, or else, at least, something akin to %, except that it would only strip the author/editor name from the citation in question?

Thanks for pondering this request.

[Jon]

Hi,

It's one of the things on my list to look at and see how hard it would be to implement.

Jon
Sonny Software

[eleuteruiz]

It's one of the things on my list to look at and see how hard it would be to implement.

Just in case you don't have it in your list (although I have mentioned this before), to make the feature still better, it would be nice to have the possibility of inserting "Id." instead of the author name the second (or third, etc.) time. It is required in some formats. In the given example it would be something like:

Freud, Metapsychology, 331; Id., New Introductory Lectures on Psychoanalysis, ed. James Strachey, trans. James Strachey (Harmondsworth: Penguin Books, 1991), 127.

Thank you
Eleuterio

[Jon]

I think you could do what you want now by using the secondary order field in the format.

Jon
Sonny Software

[eleuteruiz]

I think you could do what you want now by using the secondary order field in the format.

AFAIK, secondary order field works when the same reference is cited a second time (it normally happens in a different footnote).
The problem here is when the same author, with two (or more) different titles is cited in the same footnote.
Then you need to avoid repeating the name, by simply omitting it (just the author name, not the title) or -like in my format- by wrinting "Id." instead of author name.

Hope it is clear enough.
Eleuterio

[julesmim]

Hello,

I’ve been browsing the forum to find a solution for a problem I’m now having. I found a description of the problem in an old thread (2007), quoted below, but it seems that there is not yet a solution for this.
I would really appreciate a way to omit the author’s name when the immediately next citation is form the same author. Something analog to the use of "Ibid." but for the situation when not the whole citation is the same, but only the author is the same.

I just posted my solution for the case when I want to substitute the author name with "Id." inside a single citation (like when the author of a book chapter is the same as the editor of the edited book), but it would be very useful to have it for consecutive citations.

I found it can be done in Sente. It would have been a temptation to switch to Sente, but there a many other things that are superior in Bookends. That said, I hope something can be done to meet this needed functionality in Bookends.

Thanks for your attention and your great support.

I think you could do what you want now by using the secondary order field in the format.

AFAIK, secondary order field works when the same reference is cited a second time (it normally happens in a different footnote).
The problem here is when the same author, with two (or more) different titles is cited in the same footnote.
Then you need to avoid repeating the name, by simply omitting it (just the author name, not the title) or -like in my format- by wrinting "Id." instead of author name.

Hope it is clear enough.
Eleuterio

[Jon]

If I understand your request correctly, note that y ou can tell Bookends to exclude authors in a temp citation with the minus sign

{-temp cite}

Jon
Sonny Software

[julesmim]

Hello,

Thanks for the quick answer.

But this is not the result I want.
I don’t want to only omit the author name; I want to replace the author name by "Id."
It could also be "Idem" or other thing that I could choose (like I can choose "Ibid." or "Ibidem" or other thing for consecutive similar citations).
By the way, I always use a custom citation format.

Let me give you an example of the context I want to obtain this result:

In a footnote, I have the following citations after my manuscript (in Word 2011) is scanned:
R.  Tremblay, « Bilan d’une controverse », in StMor 27 (1989), p. 791-793; R.  Tremblay, Radicati e fondati nel figlio. Contributi per una morale di tipo filiale, Roma 1997.

I would like to have:
R.  Tremblay, « Bilan d’une controverse », in StMor 27 (1989), p. 791-793; Id., Radicati e fondati nel figlio. Contributi per una morale di tipo filiale, Roma 1997.

Your indication could be part of a solution, if I could indicate in my custom format that the static text "Id." should be output only when the minus sign in the temp cite removes the author. But I don’t see how it is possible.

Thanks for your help, and if it is not possible now, thanks for considering adding this feature to Bookends.

If I understand your request correctly, note that y ou can tell Bookends to exclude authors in a temp citation with the minus sign

{-temp cite}

Jon
Sonny Software

[Jon]

What if you do something like this (it works for me in my tests)?

{cite1; -\Id. \cite2}

Note that you must have the format set to output the citations in a group in the order entered (so Bookends doesn't rearrange the "Id." cite}

Jon
Sonny Software

[julesmim]

Hello Jon,

Thanks for this solution that works almost perfectly. It does remove the author and add "Id." instead.
The problem remaining is that the formatting of "Id." is not retained. I put it in Small Caps in Word 2011, and it is not retained. It is the same if I try another style like Underlined. But I suppose this is a problem with all quoted text inserted in citations.
I suggest this functionality be improved to retain all the Word formatting included between \ and \.
Do you think you can make this improvement soon?

Thanks for your attention,

What if you do something like this (it works for me in my tests)?

{cite1; -\Id. \cite2}

Note that you must have the format set to output the citations in a group in the order entered (so Bookends doesn't rearrange the "Id." cite}

Jon
Sonny Software

[Jon]

Quoted text (in temp citations) will be output in whatever the style sheet setting is for that paragraph. You can post-process, however, doing a global find replace for "Id." and replacing it with "Id." in small caps.

Jon
Sonny Software

[julesmim]

Quoted text (in temp citations) will be output in whatever the style sheet setting is for that paragraph. You can post-process, however, doing a global find replace for "Id." and replacing it with "Id." in small caps.

Jon
Sonny Software

Hello,

Thanks for your solution.
I think it is not an ideal solution.
It means that any quoted text in temp citations that is not uniform as for style (for example if only part of it is in italic or bold,etc.) needs to be post-process one by one.
I suppose Bookends has to work internally with the content.xml document inside the docx document. Having read the Office Open XML specification, it seems to me that it should not be so difficult to retain the formatting of quoted text.
I have another problem after scanning, about footnote numbering, but I will make another post for it.

Thanks for your attention.
julesmim

[Jon]

Actually, Bookends is processing the RTF. What you are asking for may not seem difficult, but is indeed difficult to do and would require a major rewrite of all the different word processor parsers (and wouldn't work with Mellel). I never rule out what may be added in the future, but the solution I have suggested works well for the example you proposed.

Jon
Sonny Software