Sonny Software

It would be great if BE would show the number of references in all of the groups in the group pane of the list view. Especially with the Hits group, I find myself constantly having to select it to see if I already have marked a group of selections.

I use hits most commonly when I am marking multiple noncontiguous selections to copy into a manuscript. It would be particularly convenient if there were a command, say cmd-shift-Y, that with a single keystroke would copy all of the references in the hit list and then deselect (i.e., unmark and clear) all the refs in the hit list. Even better if the hit list didn't have to be showing when this was done. One could imagine extending this to cmd-shift-K for copy selected formatted for all of the refs in the hit list.

Rick

Hi,

I'm not sure exactly what you want, but the hits status of a reference is displayed both in the List View and the Reference Window.

Also, if you select multiple references, you can check/uncheck them all instantly by either clicking on the check box of one of them with the Shift key held down, or use "Mark Selected"/"Unmark Selected" from the action menu.

If this doesn't help, please tell me what you are trying to accomplish (one item at a time) and I'll see if there is an easy way to do this now.

Jon
Sonny Software

Jon wrote:Hi,
I'm not sure exactly what you want, but the hits status of a reference is displayed both in the List View and the Reference Window.

Yes, but unless I'm missing something, it is only displayed once your click on the group. What would be useful would be to display the number of all the groups in the group pane so that one would not have to click on the group, e.g.:

All (3652)
Hits (16)
Books (327)
Short stories (512)
...

Jon wrote:Also, if you select multiple references, you can check/uncheck them all instantly by either clicking on the check box of one of them with the Shift key held down, or use "Mark All"/"Unmark All" from the action menu.

I realize that the second part of my suggestion was not as clear as it might be. Here is my current workflow:

1. I have six references scattered through my 3652 reference database that I want to reference at a single point in my manuscript.

2. First, I check to make sure that there are no hits already identified. this requires clicking on the Hits group to make sure it is empty or selecting Hits:Clear Hits list.

3. Then I go through my database and find each of the six references and mark each one.

4. Then I select the Hits group. Once there, I select all of the references and choose Edit:Copy selected citations.

5. Then, I switch to my word processor to insert the references.

When I have another, different group of references to insert in the manuscript, I repeat steps 2-5.

My suggestion was that this workflow could be made more efficient, with several fewer steps, in the following way:

1. If the Hits group displayed the number of hits in the Group pane of the list view, I would already know whether or not there were any existing hits without having to click on the Hits group.

2. As before, I go through my database and find each of the six references and mark each one.

3. With a single menu choice or key command, BE would select all of the citations in the hit list without having to open the hits group, copy them as if they were all physically selected in the window, AND once copied to the clipboard, would unmark all of the references, thus effectively clearing the hits list.

4. Then I would switch to my word processor to paste in the citations.

This would save several tedious steps: showing the hits list to see if there is anything in there (and clearing it if necessary), selecting the references in the hits list prior to copy, and manually clearing the hits list when after finishing with one set of citations and before entering another set.

I am not suggesting changing the behavior of any existing command, but am suggesting a new option which would shortcut several steps. Of course, this would only be worth implementing if others work in a similar fashion.

Rick

rallx wrote:What would be useful would be to display the number of all the groups in the group pane so that one would not have to click on the group, e.g.:

Why? FWIW, it wouldn't be too hard for static groups, but for smart groups the overhead would be enormous (searching the database for each group every time you do anything to manipulate a reference or the database and enumerating the hits).

I realize that the second part of my suggestion was not as clear as it might be. Here is my current workflow:

You are making the process unnecessarily tedious.

Unless I misunderstand you (please correct me if I do), you are not aware of the following:

1. If you select your word processor (e.g. Word or Mellel) in Preferences, Bookends will automatically do the switch and paste into your word processor document when you Copy Selected.

2. You do not need to make a reference a hit to make it a temporary citation. Just select it in the List View (Command-Click to make multiple selections, of course), then do a Copy Selected. You can also drag and drop the references into your word processor document and they will appear as temporary citations.

3. Option-Shift-Command-H will clear the hits list. You can also uncheck the selected references quickly by clicking on the checkbox of one of them with the Shift key held down.

Jon
Sonny Software

Jon wrote:Why? FWIW, it wouldn't be too hard for static groups, but for smart groups the overhead would be enormous (searching the database for each group every time you do anything to manipulate a reference or the database and enumerating the hits).

How about for just the Hits, then? This would allow a user to see at a glance, without having to switch to the Hits group, whether or not there were any marked references. I'm surprised to hear that it would be so difficult to do since there are several programs that do this type of thing already (recipe programs come to mind). Even Mail.app shows the number of unread messages in smart groups.

You are making the process unnecessarily tedious.

Unless I misunderstand you (please correct me if I do), you are not aware of the following:

Though I realize I did not explicitly state so in my other messages, I am familiar with all of these:

1. If you select your word processor (e.g. Word or Mellel) in Preferences, Bookends will automatically do the switch and paste into your word processor document when you Copy Selected.

I use this all the time, but since it is the same in both workflows I presented, it makes no difference in the outcome, so I did not mention it.

2. You do not need to make a reference a hit to make it a temporary citation. Just select it in the List View (Command-Click to make multiple selections, of course), then do a Copy Selected. You can also drag and drop the references into your word processor document and they will appear as temporary citations.

Yes, but when you have a large reference list and several citations to select separated by hundreds of thousands of entries, it is much easier and more secure (you don't run the risk of selecting 6 out of 7 references but forgetting to hold down the cmd key for the 7th) to use the quick find field, mark the entry, and then do the same for the next reference. This is particularly true give that the way BE sorts the list view makes it more difficult to find references in a large list, at least for those of us who came over from Endnote where the list view is sorted by the last name of the first author (only) and the year. One of the major reasons why I switched to BE was because of the ability to mark individual references. The way you suggest is the ONLY way to select a group of references in EN and it is inferior to BE's quick search, mark etc. when dealing with a large number of references.

3. Option-Shift-Command-H will clear the hits list. You can also uncheck the selected references quickly by clicking on the checkbox of one of them with the Shift key held down.

True and every few months when I write another paper I have to re-memorize that combination. Given the hundreds of key combos in the ten to twenty programs that I use daily, my aging brain just doesn't have space to remember Opt-Sh-Cmd-H in a program that I use somewhat less frequently. So I end up mousing across my screen to the Hits menu to apply the command. Personally, I would like to see a customizable tool bar with a "clear hits button" as one of the choices, but I realize that is not in the BE ethic.

Rick

rallx wrote: How about for just the Hits, then? This would allow a user to see at a glance, without having to switch to the Hits group, whether or not there were any marked references.

It's not exactly elegant, but if you have a reference window open you will see the number of hits displayed in the upper left hand corner.

BTW, it's not a question of whether it would be hard to show the number of hits in the list view groups pane. The issue is whether it adds confusion to the interface (why the hits and not every other group? Bookends displays the number of items in a folder, how does one distinguish that from a group?), creates clutter, and would be useful to more than a few people. In your case, it seems you mostly want to know if you have to clear the hits list before marking a new group, and as we discussed you can just invoke the keyboard shortcut if you're not sure.

One other thing -- Bookends does do a default sort on author/date in the list view. But unlike EN it sorts on all authors in the reference. I occasionally get reports that this sort isn't working, in which case rebuilding the database to fix the index works. I mention just in case this is a problem for you (I couldn't quite tell from the post).

Jon
Sonny Software