Citations list

[raymond]

I have encounter the following difficulty when creating a bibliography list in Mellel.

I have citations which were taken from an article published as well on the Internet.

I wish the list entry of the Bibliography on Mellel will contain all the elements including in Journal Article in the pop-up menu at the left up corner. But this possibility doesn't appearing at the outcome on Mellel. The URL I have entered in the database on Bookends is not included on the Mellel list.
When I am putting the possibility, in the pop-up menu at the left up corner of the database window in Bookends, Internet, the output in Mellel will include the URL, but will omit all other details from the database.

Is there a solution for this?

TIA

[Jon]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

But if you're asking why the URL isn't appearing in the bibliography, then it is because you have not used a format that outputs the URL in the formatted reference. You'll have to add that to the format yourself.

In case you have missed it, there is a User Guide for Bookends, which would answer almost every question you have posted. It is searchable, too:

http://www.sonnysoftware.com/BookendsUserGuide.pdf.zip

Jon
Sonny Software

[raymond]

Thank you for your valuable answer. And sorry for not being able to explain myself better in English which is not my language.

I am asking about an issue I have encounter in my work on Mellel and your explanations are to go to RTFM. This is a good help.

I am speaking about a shortcoming in Bookends, at least as far as I understand it.

I have a citation where I want to create in the bibliography an entry. This entry on Mellel will contain all the details which appear when entering in Journal article on BE, as well as its URL.

I enter the URL in the appropriate field in BE database, but after creating the entry in Mellel, it shows me everything but the URL, which is not good for my needs.

Now, if I will mention on BE database that it is an Internet, in Mellel it will show me Title and URL, without the other details found in the database.

Is there a possibility to have in BE database both?

[nicka]

This has already been answered, so there's obviously a misunderstanding.

What information from the Bookends reference goes into the citation and into the bibliographic entry in Mellel is entirely determined by the format chosen in Bookends.

I think someone said that you were using APA format.
As that person said, the APA format does not put URLs in bibliography entries for journal articles (just because that's what the APA guidelines say).

So: you will need either 1) to change format to one that does what you want, if you can find one
or, more realistically, 2) copy the format you are currently using to create a new one and edit it so that it outputs a URL for journals too.

Editiing formats looks a but daunting, but it's not too bad really, and if you have a look at the relevant part of the manual, you should be able to get started with it.

[raymond]

Thanks.
I'll try to work it out.
Still, because more and more Journal articles are on internet, may be BE should create a new format fitting this new reality.

[Jon]

I am asking about an issue I have encounter in my work on Mellel and your explanations are to go to RTFM. This is a good help.

I believe I said it more politely than that. But yes, in essence it is good advice from which you would benefit, since the forum is a rather poor vehicle for timely discussion.

In this case, nicka has kindly provided more background.

Jon
Sonny Software

[ozean]

Still, because more and more Journal articles are on internet, may be BE should create a new format fitting this new reality.

I definitely see your point, but it would not make much sense for Jon to create a format of his own showing things the way he would like them to be shown in a bibliograpyh, because we usually have to stick to a format that people tell us to use. And yes, both APA and the Chicago format are _very common_ but they are faulty (in that I agree with you) since they do not by default tell people to include this info.

What can we do? Adapt these or other formats to our own personal likings and preferences. It would not make much sense for Jon to bundle “ozean’s favorite formatâ€

[nicka]

because more and more Journal articles are on internet, may be BE should create a new format fitting this new reality.

Yes, but... The thing is that Bookends comes with formats that produce the the common standard formats for bibliographies (APA, Harvard etc. -- and a lot more), and the standard formats haven't been changed by the people who write them (eg the American Psychology Association) to make it correct to include a URL. And then there are lots of little alterations that you might want to make to whichever standard format you are using. It's not practical for the developers of Bookends to try to anticipate all of those alterations. So they give you the power to easily create and edit formats. That way if you want standard APA in all respects except that journal articles are listed with URLs in the bibliography, you can do it.

It's this easy: go to Biblio>Formats Manager. You'll get a list of formats. Click once on the one you want to use as a base (probably "APA 5th edition"), to select it.

Click 'New' and in the resulting dialogue box give the format a name: eg "Ray's APA".

Then select that new format in the list of formats and click on "Edit...".
You get a new dialogue box with the details of the format (which have all been copied from APA 5th edition). We need to make one small modification.

In the dropdown menu on the left labelled 'Type:" choose "Journal article". In the space labelled "Primary order", add the following at the end: "~ Retrieved from ~z" (without the quotation marks!).

Here "z" stands for the URL field in Bookends. The tilde character "~" is like a quotation mark, but it's a smart one: the text between the tildes will only be output if z is filled with something, that is, only if there actually is a URL in the reference.

That's it. Close the format dialogue by clicking the red close widget at the top right, then close the list of formats (by clicking "Done").

Check in Biblio>Default format that your new format is selected.

Now in list view, single-click on a reference which is a journal article with a URL. In the 'view formatted' pane at the bottom of the main list window you should see something like:

Powell, G. (2001). The referential-attributive distinction: A cognitive account. Pragmatics and Cognition, 9(1), 69-98. Retrieved from ingentaconnect.com/content/jbp/pc/2001/00000009/00000001/art00003

This is a preview of how your bibliography entry for this reference will look when you scan in Mellel.

I hope this helps, and that with this walkthrough and the manual, you can work out how to make all the little alterations to formats that you might want.

[raymond]

It was really helpful and I thank you heartedly.
I understand that the creator of BE is very busy person.
I can say that I wish that the Guide would have been so simple and helpful as your explanations.

Once again thanks

Raymond

[Jon]

I understand that the creator of BE is very busy person.

Yup, and on vacation and out of the country as well. One purpose of a user guide is so I don't have to answer the same questions again and again and again. If you point to a section of the User Guide that isn't clear, you can always email me and suggest alternative wording or ask for more detail.

Jon
Sonny Software

[nicka]

I am glad it was helpful.

If the guide were written like my post above it would be at least ten times as long as it is. And it's already 268 pages.

I suppose there is some scope for separate tutorials for specific aspects of the application, of the sort that some people have written for Mellel. For Bookends, I guess it would make sense to have separate tutorials for things like how to find references on the internet, how to edit a reference format, or how Mellel and Bookends work together. Perhaps when I have finished my thesis, I'll write one...

But it's also easier to write these sets of instructions in answer to specific questions, which is why forums are so good.

[nicka]

My post crossed with Jon's. There might be a few things that could be made clearer in the user guide, but really, I think it's pretty clear. (It's also comprehensive and excellent overall.) It's just that sometimes new users need to be walked through every step of a procedure. It would be tedious to read through all of that as an intermediate or advanced user. And it would make the guide incredibly long. So it can't really go in the user guide, in my opinion.

Jon: I think you should go back to the beach (/cafe/wherever) and rest on your laurels for a bit. You have more than earned it.

[Jon]

Hi nicka,

Thanks, much appreciated .

I've spent my last night in Barcelona, and back to the States tomorrow. For all our Spanish users, I want to say that I absolutely love Barcelona, and hope to return. I've never been to Spain before, but am terribly impressed (we stayed one block off of La Ramblas, which is a very lovely and always exciting place to be). The museums were terrific, as were the Gaudi sites (we saw the Battlo house and the Parc Gaudi, both novel and interesting). Loved having dinner at 11:30 at night (like tonight), too. A really memorably visit.

Back to the US tomorrow, and hope to attend more fully to tech support and such by Thursday. Thanks to everyone who has been waiting for their patience.

Jon
Sonny Software