Sonny Software

I have settled on bookends as the best way to manage citations, but I am still trying to figure out the best way to organize quotes, notes, and ideas. I would like to organize these tidbits for lectures, perhaps even a book. Does anyone have a suggestion for Mac OS X?

How do you organize your information? Ideally, when I come across a quote, I would like to write it down and perhaps write a commentary. I then want to be able to retrieve it without having to dig through my piles of napkins, envelopes, and digital scraps of paper.

Any suggestions? I would love to hear your workflow for harvesting your notes-- ideally, one that would be related to bookends.

Just my .02:

I keep notes in, well, Notes (click on the Notes button to enlarge the field for easier text entry and reading).

I keep all relevant files (usually pdfs) as attachments, letting Bookends file them away for me. This works for image files as well.

Groups are very useful for organization purposes. Static and smart groups each have their (different uses).

I don't use keywords myself, but you are so inclined the Term List view is a great way to see all references that share a keyword.

I'd be interested in the comments of others, too.

Jon
Sonny Software

It seems that DEVONthink could be what you are looking for. I am currently testing it as to the very same purpose you described, thus I don't know whether it works well. But from the description it seems to meet all your needs.

Matthias

I am using OmniOutliner to write excerpts and keep notes together. Since the Bookends database is not Spotlight-searchable I have to keep these things seperate to be able to find this stuff via Spotlight. Attaching the OmniOutliner documents to the entry in Bookends database keeps these things linked…

I use several programs primarily for organizing notes, quotes, and idea, and also research material, reading notes, etc. I use DEVONthink as my 'mass storage' program, which houses everything I want to hold and then find later for future possible projects. I also use it to store clip art and other things I might need for my own personal use. It works really well with DEVONagent, which is a powerful web-search program that allows me to clip pages to DT very easily. DT stores everything, and even allows you to view web pages from within the program. I love this program, but it may be more than what you are looking for.

For a specific project, I use Circus Ponies Notebook to clip to, hold all project development notes, resource notes, quotes, etc. In other words, I use Notebook as my project organizer and DT as my meta-organizer. I often clip information back and forth between them--to Notebook from DT for a specific project and to DT from Notebook for things I want to keep beyond the specific project. Notebook is also a powerful outliner and is quite fun to use! It also has a contextual menu item that allows you to clip things to whatever clipping field you've designated in a notebook. I use this quite frequently.

I also use Hog Bay Notebook for some things, like vocabulary lists and language-related information. It's a much simpler interface yet still quite powerful in some of its features. I also use it as my personal journal, since I like writing in it best, and I can easily create new entries with dates, etc.

I also use Nova Mind to map out a project vidually and keep my own ideas for a project organized. It's very good for attaching notes and ideas as well. I use this for really big projects that can get out of control really quickly. It allows me to map out all my thoughts, ideas, revision ntoes, etc. in one place.

As for Bookends, I use it to manage my references, naturally. To be honest, I haven't really explored all the ways I can attach notes to references, so I can't help you there. I warehouse so much information--both what I research and the information I myself produce--I need something much more than just the notes feature Bookends offers. I think the only way I would attach notes to a reference is for abstracts or biography notes about a particular author. But I'm sure there are many other ways or reasons to do this. I just haven't done them myself.

This may sound confusing, but it actually works really well, since each program meets a specific need it's particular well suited for.

Any one of these programs (and there are others I know of but don't use myself) would organize your notes and ideas quite well and they all have powerful search capabilities, so you can dig them up when you need them. Notebook is particularly good for attaching keywords and even icons that you can later search, and you can attach multiple keywords and icons (called stickers) to any one note. It has strong outlining features as well.

Hope this helps and doesn't confuse!

Alexandria

Hello--

I'm going through the same stages as Alexandria: exploring various software. (trying DEVONthink now, and close to downloading Bookends.)

Does Bookends basically let you access the bibliographical info and abstracts, but not the content itself?

Are there any good Theological databases to access? Princeton Seminary Library?

I hear a lot on here about Medical. That's not me.

Are DEVONthink and Circus Ponies Notebook different enough to not be overlap and duplication?

I would have notes, comments, ideas, with Greek and Hebrew. Would both of these meet that need?


Blessings,
Steve Raine

spr wrote:Does Bookends basically let you access the bibliographical info and abstracts, but not the content itself

As far as I know, you can do two things--you can use the Notes field for more extended comments or you can attach a document to a reference. I haven't used these features myself. Mostly I use it to store bibliographic information to generate citations and bibliographies.

Are there any good Theological databases to access? Princeton Seminary Library?

Good question. I haven't looked into this. Are you at Princeton Seminary? I ask because I'm a Ph.D. candidate at Princeton U. in the area of religious studies. I'm not doing theology, however, so I don't deal with the need for theological resource material.

Are DEVONthink and Circus Ponies Notebook different enough to not be overlap and duplication?

In my experience, yes. DT is a powerful database management program with excellent search capabilities and some AI features that make information storage easier and more consistent. Notebook's interface makes it less amenable to this kind of mass storage, at least for me. I love Notebook for idea development, where I'm working with my own ideas and thoughts, and material specific to a particular project. I also use it for my creative and shorter non-fiction projects that don't involve footnotes and the like. To me, it's more a creative development tool than a database.

As for using Greek and Hebrew, that's a question better answered by others. The only way I know to do that is to use language fonts, but there may be more effective ways to do it. I have some references in Attic Greek, French, and German, but I've always used keyboard options and Greek fonts for these. I don't have to create anything really extensive with other languages.

Hope this helps!!

Alexandria

Hi--

Alex--we're not at Princeton Seminary, but at Fuller in Pasadena. PTS has the largest theological library in North America, I believe, and would be great if it was accessible to Bookends.

Status Report:

Have been trying DEVONthink, and am probably going to get DEVONthink and Agent.

Used Bookends for ~ 5 minutes, and knew I was buying it!

Also began evaluating Circus Ponies Notebook today, and it looks like a can't-miss, too. I agree with reports I've read: DEVONthink has much more power, while Notebook is leaner and quicker for smaller projects.

Have also been dabbling with Mellel word processor. I like it, but the 'Export to .doc' didn't give me a 'real' MS Word file, and I don't need something that's going to be a hassle if I have to email a paper. Maybe I need to be set straight by a more experienced user on that issue.

I've got to stop 'experimenting' and start 'using'!

Blessings,
Steve

spr wrote:Alex--we're not at Princeton Seminary, but at Fuller in Pasadena. PTS has the largest theological library in North America, I believe, and would be great if it was accessible to Bookends.

Hi Steve,

Isn't it? We have a Fuller Theological Seminary import filter that does internet searches. Doesn't it work for you?

Jon
Sonny Software

Hi Jon--

As someone who is brand new to this 'stuff,' perhaps you could give me a quick 'How-To' on 'import filters' (or just point me to the page # in the manual.)

Thanks,
Steve

Download the User Guide from our web site. There is a table of contents that should be helful. And of course you can search the pdf file.

Import Filters are discussed beginning on p. 53. But I think you want to read up on Internet Search. That begins on p. 178.

Jon
Sonny Software

pacbook wrote:I am still trying to figure out the best way to organize quotes, notes, and ideas. I would like to organize these tidbits for lectures, perhaps even a book. Does anyone have a suggestion for Mac OS X?

How do you organize your information? Ideally, when I come across a quote, I would like to write it down and perhaps write a commentary. I then want to be able to retrieve it without having to dig through my piles of napkins, envelopes, and digital scraps of paper.

Any suggestions? I would love to hear your workflow for harvesting your notes-- ideally, one that would be related to bookends.

I've used all the software mentioned in this thread, spending far too much money in the process. I think maybe StickyBrain may be what you're looking for. It makes it easy to capture information into pre-defined categories using hotkeys and to search for it. Killer features for me include the synchronization with my .Mac account and my iPod and the fact that you don't have to launch it to use it. See the Macworld review http://www.macworld.com/2005/04/reviews ... c=mwrevrss. A simpler program with a longer pedigree is VoodooPad: http://www.theappleblog.com/2005/02/21/voodoopad/.

Since I wrote the previous message in this thread, DEVONthink Pro has been released. Although it has loads more features than the personal edition, to the extent that it sometimes seems to be a complete replacement for Preview, Sherlock, the Finder, etc., it seems to be many times faster, added to which it can handle multiple databases, so you don't need to store non-research data alongside research data and thus slow it down. So although it's "heavyweight" software insofar as what it can do, it can be treated as an always-open, light program. Note also that it can store BibTeX data (intelligently, I think, but I haven't had enough time to try it out), so there may be some interesting ways of incorporating it into a Bookends-centered workflow. DT now also has an Export to iPod command.

None of what I've said here makes VoodooPad or StickyBrain any less valuable than they were a few weeks ago, of course. I've yet to fully settle on one system.

I'd love it if this thread were to grow a bit more. I often feel that a bigger problem than learning a program is deciding which programs to use and how to link them together into an efficient workflow, and I would like to hear what other people do.

rickl wrote:I'd love it if this thread were to grow a bit more. I often feel that a bigger problem than learning a program is deciding which programs to use and how to link them together into an efficient workflow, and I would like to hear what other people do.

Yes, I agree! I'm part of several forums and this seems to be an ongoing theme with most users, especially writers of different ilks.

I too have been using DT Pro since its release, though I was using DT PE heavily as well. With the new features, the ability to create multiple databases, the powerful scripting possibilities, I've begun to pare down my use of my notebook programs and increased my use of DT to manage individual projects and am finding myself happy with this change, at least so far. I agree that it is a heavyweight program that can also function as an "always open, light program." It is the latter that I'm experiimenting more with--using it as a notetaking/notebook program for projects and not just a mega-storage, heavy-duty database. I really want to consolidate my workflow as much as possible. There's just too much redundancy, and wasted time, when moving back and forth between programs. Too soon to tell what will work best, however, and if DT can truly replace my notebooks.

BTW, I'd be interested in any way that other users find to integrate Bookends with DT Pro and vice versa.

Alexandria

This is one of the most visited threads, and a critical issue. I’m wanting to jump into some PhD research, but I want to start using a data-management system that I can stick with. Can you send in some testing results? DT just improving? Are there other valuable threads on this topic of managing information? …especially integrating research with BookEnds? Thanks.