Location of cited pages in citation

[Andrew]

Hi there.
I am using Bookends with Mellel and have a problem with formatting cited pages for journal articles. I am following Chicago 16th but have set up my own customised format because I have lots of obscure unpublished references. Anyway, I have noticed a problem with journal citations. Most journal articles are online these days and Chicago puts cited pages (in a footnote citation) after the date followed by access date and then url or doi. Bookends puts cited pages at the end of the citation which, in the case of online journal articles, is after url or doi. In the formats manager field order I have the “p-” in the correct place and so for the bibliography it is ok as the whole page range goes where I put “p-”. Also for subsequent mentions it is ok as I just have ‘author’ ‘title’ then cited pages at the end. It only does not work for the first mention of an online article citation where the page range ("p-”) is correctly removed but then is replaced by cited pages not in the same location but at the end. I would ideally like the cited pages to go in the same spot I have the “p-”.

Has anyone sorted out a way to solve this or can anyone suggest a possible solution?

[Jon]

Bookends allows ad hoc additions (specified in the temp citation) to a final citation (beginning or end), but you can't make ad hoc changes in the middle of a final citation. The only solution I can think of is a very poor one -- add the cited pages to the actual reference itself (e.g. in User1 field) and incorporate that into the format.

Maybe someone else has a better idea.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Andrew]

Two thoughts - first a curiosity question - Is there some sort of programming reason that data entered in the word processor (i.e. cited pages and/or quoted text in backslashes) can only go at beginning or end?

Second thought is an attempt at a solution:- If we can't put cited pages in the middle then I thought I need to split the citation into two citations. I chose one online journal article and duplicated it. I have then created two new ref types. The citation format (custom) for one new type is essentially the first half of the journal citation. When I enter this in Mellel I do the required cited pages after it. Then the second new ref type only outputs the access date and url/doi. It sort of works but there are all sorts of problems with punctuation because there is a semi-colon between the two entries. There are other hassles in that you need to do an "exclude from bibliography" thing for the second half. Also this work around is only required the first time such an article is cited so if, in later revisions of drafts you cite it earlier in your document you need to remember and change it. So, it is certainly not perfect but it may present a starting point for a solution. It would be helpful if you could set up two refs in the database that can be linked for this sort of purpose. Is there potential in this idea for a solution?

[Jon]

Two thoughts - first a curiosity question - Is there some sort of programming reason that data entered in the word processor (i.e. cited pages and/or quoted text in backslashes) can only go at beginning or end?

If you mean "is it possible to write code to do that?", then yes. But it would require a much more complicated implementation (from both a coding and a user perspective).

Second thought is an attempt at a solution:- If we can't put cited pages in the middle then I thought I need to split the citation into two citations. I chose one online journal article and duplicated it. I have then created two new ref types. The citation format (custom) for one new type is essentially the first half of the journal citation. When I enter this in Mellel I do the required cited pages after it. Then the second new ref type only outputs the access date and url/doi. It sort of works but there are all sorts of problems with punctuation because there is a semi-colon between the two entries. There are other hassles in that you need to do an "exclude from bibliography" thing for the second half. Also this work around is only required the first time such an article is cited so if, in later revisions of drafts you cite it earlier in your document you need to remember and change it. So, it is certainly not perfect but it may present a starting point for a solution. It would be helpful if you could set up two refs in the database that can be linked for this sort of purpose. Is there potential in this idea for a solution?

I haven't tried this sort of thing before, but I suppose you could use reference crosslinking and a custom metatype to do this. In other words, set up the first reference as the child and the second (with the url/doi as the parent). Then in the metatype use [ ] to tell Bookends what fields come from the parent. Please see the User Guide (Help menu) for how to create a use a metatype in your formats.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Andrew]

I'll do some experimenting in the next week and see what happens.