Sonny Software

Apologies if this has been addressed previously, but I couldn't find any examples on the forum.

I'm working in the SBL format and my problem is that for many first citations, I want to include both the full page range of the article AND the cited pages in parentheses. Essentially, I want this for a first citation (assuming journal article type):

Danny Zacharias, "Article Title," Journal Name 126 no. 2 (2011): 201–15 (204–05)

The problem is that I get these alternatives (and a couple others in the process I can't recall), none of which are satisfactory:

(2011): 201–15 (, 204–05) [the only solution to this one seems to be to turn off the "Before" punctuation for cited pages under Common Settings, but that breaks everything else)
(2011): 201–15 () [this is the output I get for those occasions where I do cite the article without a specific page range]
(2011):, 204–05 [this is if I uncheck the "allow reference page number" option, which is not what I'm wanting to do, nor is this output a good one anyway)

Have you tried the format setting Citation Options -> Cited Papers -> Allow reference page number when using Cited Pages?

Jon
Sonny Software

Yup, that's checked. That's how I get the first two results I listed in the initial post. The third (as stated) is what results when that is unchecked.

The problem is that box doesn't solve the problem of getting the punctuation for the cited pages right.

You can change the "before" punctuation on an ad hoc basis like this

@\, \13018

In which case a comma and space will be used, regardless of what's in the format.

Jon
Sonny Software

I'm afraid that doesn't come close to solving the problem for a couple reasons:

1) I'm trying to ELIMINATE the comma and space, which are being added to the first citation despite me not wanting them at all since the page range is inside parentheses. I want this: (2011): 201–15 (204–05), but I'm getting this: (2011): 201–15 (, 204–05). And unchecking the box for the "before" punctuation under Common Settings > Cited Pages is not an option, as that essentially breaks every other citation type.

2) In a document which already has 2100+ citations, employing an ad-hoc solution isn't really a solution, especially since I'd have to know whether each instance was the first citation, etc. That effectively defeats the purpose of using a scannable citation system altogether; at that point I might as well do everything longhand.

If you want to eliminate the comma space, you'd do @\\13.18.

Bookends won't change the punctuation that comes before cited pages depending on whether it's the first or the 2 time it's cited. If you want that done you have to handle it yourself. So yes, you'd have to know whether the paper had been cited before. I don't know if any reference manager can do what you want automatically.

Jon
Sonny Software

I’m a former Sente user. It used to allow that level of granular control, which was really important given all the quirks of SBL style. They did it by having a different setting for first citations versus others.

There’s no way I’ll be able to ad hoc this, so I guess I’ll have to find a find-and-replace solution in the word processor itself after scanning. Oh well. Thanks as always for your swift support!

Bookends also allows different output for first and subsequent citations. But for cited pages it's global or ad hoc.

Although this won't help in your case, for completeness I'll note that (1) cited pages are optional (so if you don't want to cite a particular page, leave it out and you wouldn't see an output like 0, which you mention in the first post), and (2) you can also use "quoted text" instead of cited pages, in which case everything is controlled in an ad hoc manner: {temp cite\, pp. 1-4\}. But as I said, this is for others who might read this, it doesn't matter in your case.

Jon
Sonny Software

Hi. Newby here, and very impressed with Bookends. As someone using the SBLHS2 format, I've already encountered what I believe to be the problem discussed in this thread. I suspect it's more to do with the SBL format than anything else. Still, I'm wondering if there's been a solution or workaround other than manually changing all the occurrences of ":, " (colon-comma-space) to just a colon before a page number.

For me the manual option is feasible (I'm expecting to write papers of less than 25 pages, for the most part), but I sort of feel like I'm driving a really fine new Audi and having to roll the windows down with a hand crank.

Thank you!

Can you post an example of a temp citation which, after scanning, has this issue?

And also what is the "before" text is in your cited pages configuration (that's defined in the format you are using, Citation Options -> Common Settings).

Jon
Sonny Software

OK, here goes. I hope I'm providing what you're kindly asking for:

(1) After scanning in Nisus (same results in Mellel):

Ronald S. Hendel, “Genesis, Book of,” in Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary, 2:, 933, ed. David Noel Freedman, 6 vols. (New York, Doubleday: 1992).

Should read "Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary 2:933, ed. David Noel Freedman ..."

(2) Citation Options -> Common Settings -> "Before" : ", " [comma][space]

(3) And, FWIW, contents of Field Order box for this custom reference type:

a, “t,” $in$ j, {v:^\\}@, $ed.$ e, u13 $vols.$ (l, u: d)

If for this custom type you never want a comma output before the cited pages, remove it from the "before" field in the format. And remove the \\.

It used to be that the settings for Cited Pages applied to all Types, but that changed a while ago and now they are Type-specific.

So edit your Cited Pages before field and use this Order field:

a, “t,” $in$ j, {v:@^}, $ed.$ e, u13 $vols.$ (l, u: d)

BTW, this order doesn't deal with issues like there being nothing entered in User13, # of volumes. So "ed. vols." will be output even if there are none. The same if true of editors. You can deal with this by the use of spaces (detailed in the User Guide). This example will behave properly if the the # of volumes and/or the editors field is empty:

a, “t,” $in$ j, {v:@^}, $ed.$ e, u13$ vols.$ (l, u: d)

Compare the two, and notice that in each case I just moved a space from the formatting instructions into the literal text (the text between $ signs).

Jon
Sonny Software

Wow, Jon! That fixed it. I'm very pleased.

(Also, and I know this wasn't your primary motivation, but you just sold a license. I'd been in trial mode for about a week, but your prompt, competent help showed me that Bookends is a good investment. Thanks!)

Thank you.

I hope you enjoy using Bookends, and if you run into other issues you can't resolve or have feature requests, please let us know, either via a tech support email or a post on the forum.

Jon
Sonny Software