GUI and more fields- a discussion

[markau]

It's not editable, but already have the ability to have reference info displayed in any form you want, by Type as well.

Create a format for what you want to see (e.g. authors, title (bold), abstract, notes, whatever). Then use the View Formatted drawer at the bottom of the List View to see it.

We already provide one such format, Ref with Abstract. You can modify that if you like to suit your needs.

There is a popup menu to select formats, so it is a simple thing to move back and forth between a "display" format and one you might use for a bibliography.

Jon
Sonny Software

I almost always have the view formatted on at the moment. I guess what I was heading towards is that if format in the info draw could be set by the user, then I would turn off the "view formatted," and only have the info draw always open. The main advantage of that, as far I could see is that the list part of the list view would be longer (as having to make the view formatted part big enough to get notes and abstract starts to have an impact on how long the list is), but also that it is more readable, as the width of the info draw is pretty good for reading notes, but the view formatted is too wide (unless you reduce the width of the window but then, again, you have to make the view formatted part so long you lose too much of the list view).

One issue I have noticed with the view formatted is this. Say I set it to style A. Then, I scan a document in Mellel using style B. The view formatted gets changed to style A for some reason. So then I have to change it back again every time I scan a document. Additionally, changing it back to A means that the next time I scan in Mellel, it defaults to scanning in style A, rather than style B which is what I really want. I'm guess there is some mechanism by which Bookends remembers whatever the last format is that got used and always seems to go for that, but is there an option or way to get it work so that the "view formatted" is independent of this mechanism.

[Jon]

Gee, how often do you scan documents?

Bookends will reset the style to whatever was used to scan. You can easily set it back any number of ways:

1. The Biblio -> Default Format menu
2. Biblio Formatter -> select format and do a Set Default
3. Change the format in the View Formatted window
4. Change the format in the Show Formatted window (when ref window is in front).

View Formatted lets you harness all the power of the bib formatter to get the view you want. I'm not going to duplicate that interface for the Concise View. Use View Formatted if you want that level of control...

Jon
Sonny Software

[tom]

Hi Tacitus -- thanks for sticking with us!

To me (and I think most scientists) the abstract field is the most important, which is why it is given prominence. I wouldn't make that info so painful to get to.

Jon
Sonny Software

I agree with Jon - for me, the abstract field is much more important than the notes field (which in my case is usually empty...

tom

[Tacitus]

I agree with Jon - for me, the abstract field is much more important than the notes field (which in my case is usually empty...

tom

I use the notes field quite a lot and would miss it.

Yes Jon, In my earlier post I meant that the same window space could be used for abstract and notes with tabs to toggle between them, although Im not sure how difficult this would be in programming terms. It would give those who use notes more space and retain much of the current layout. Possibly there could be a prefs setting or simply set it to default to abstract, since that is what most use most of the time.

Tacitus

[danzac]

I meant that the same window space could be used for abstract and notes with tabs to toggle between them, although Im not sure how difficult this would be in programming terms. It would give those who use notes more space and retain much of the current layout.

I too have no idea what it means in terms of programming, but it seems like people like the idea of the Notes field beside the Abstract (a few said they liked it and no one said they didn't), while others said keeping the Abstract field big is a priority. Is it possible to make a sliding size bar between these two fields to accomodate everyone? So some may like it divided evenly as per my last GUI pic, while others (those who focus on the Abstract) could slide the bar to look like this:



While others could give prominence to the Notes field, like this:



Is this possible?

[Tacitus]

I too have no idea what it means in terms of programming, but it seems like people like the idea of the Notes field beside the Abstract (a few said they liked it and no one said they didn't), while others said keeping the Abstract field big is a priority. Is it possible to make a sliding size bar between these two fields to accomodate everyone? ...........SNIP........

This is really one for Jon but I doubt it in the way that you have illustrated. Going from my experience with ResEdit on OS9, buttons occupy a fixed position. It may be possible to alter the text field but any text would have to reflow which could cause programming problems.

I'm not against the idea of a split window but I think the split would need to be fixed. This would imply two very long columns for maybe a few notes which would be a waste of space. OK within BE you probably need to set the field size, so my tabbed way would imply two fields of the same potential size. Also an effective waste of memory within the prog, but visually and practically you would be making more use of it since text could flow to the full window width.

cheers,

Tacitus

[Jon]

Honestly, I'm not at all sure I want to move the Notes field. Right now there is the enlarge capability. And in the List View (where I think most people live) the Notes field is in the Info Draw, and easy to view/edit. Moving the Notes field will cause some cosmetic problems (small) and require reordering the tab sequence (a bigger pain for reasons I won't go into). So, given that there are already two solutions to working with Notes in a large scrolling field, I'm reluctant to add another one.

Jon
Sonny Software

[danzac]

I understand- I like the Notes beside the abstract - but no biggie I guess. May I ask how many fields you are planning to add to the Bib window then (in the pics I've made, moving the notes field made extra fields a little easier)?

Overall, I like the idea of a bigger Notes field, so if my idea doesn't float then I'd second Tacitus' idea of the tab style for the large bottom field.

Cheers!

[Jon]

For those who prefer a large Notes field instead of Abstract in the reference window, you know you can just reassign them in Preference, right? Then all you need to do is make a minor tweak to the import filters you use, swapping the import tags between Notes and Abstract.

As for new fields, I don't know. Ten seems reasonable.

Jon
Sonny Software

[danzac]

For those who prefer a large Notes field instead of Abstract in the reference window, you know you can just reassign them in Preference, right? Then all you need to do is make a minor tweak to the import filters you use, swapping the import tags between Notes and Abstract.

As for new fields, I don't know. Ten seems reasonable.

Jon
Sonny Software

That's true, but if that were to be done, what would happen to the Notes editable field in the List view info Drawer? This is actually something i might do, if my new Abstract field (in the place where Notes are) became part of the Concise view in the Info drawer, and the new Notes field in the Notes Drawer. Would Bookends recognize this change for the Info Drawer in the List view?

Are the ten fields all going to go into a drawer, or will some be added to the main Bib window?

[Jon]

No more fields added to the main window, I think -- it's already pretty busy.

Two options I'm considering: a drawer (probably) or have second tab for the reference window (like Preferences has) that would change from the current fields to the new fields -- you would not be able to see both at once, though. Both approaches have advantages and disadvantages.

Jon
Sonny Software

[danzac]

I'll cast my vote for the drawer. I'm not sure about others, but I like being able to see all the info at once.

[kvmagruder]

For what it's worth, I vote for the drawer also (in order to see everything at once). Yet a tab would be okay, too -- I also agree with the person who said early in this thread that many fields only need to be seen at the time of entry, and then are often ignored forevermore. However, regardless of what you decide is the best interface, I'm just very glad to hear a definite commitment to add more fields. The more fields are added, the more colleagues of mine will switch from EndNote. How about 12? Thanks.

[Jon]

That's a nice round number.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Shayne]

As for new fields, I don't know. Ten seems reasonable.

How about 12?

That's a nice round number.

Hi,

I cannot help feeling that the requests for extra fields are not being taken all that seriously. I am very grateful to Jon for his extra work in trying to implement this feature, but the comments above suggest, at least to me, that somehow somewhere at least some of us are being misunderstood. Jon suggests 10, someone suggests 12, and: “That's a nice round number.â€