Repeated citation

[yeanus]

Hi. I am a new user of Bookends, currently running version 12.1.
I am trying to figure out to to deal with repeated citations.

I know that Bookends offers the option of using Ibid. or whatever text I want it to appear. But if Ibid. option is not ticked, then the repeated citation would use the name of the author and the title.

My university requirement is such that the repeated citation in the footnote shall not be Ibid, but the Initial then Surname of the author, and then short title.

so:

the first citation: J. Davis, ABC, New York, 2009, 69.
the repeated one: J. Davis, ABC, 90.

So far I manage to get only the Surname, but not the initial.

Any advice on this?

[Jon]

You're talking about the Subsequent Order field in the format, right? If so, you have the option to output names as in the First Order field, or the first name or two (like the First Order field) and "et al." if there are more than 2 authors. Try setting that popup to one of these.

Jon
Sonny Software

[yeanus]

I think there is a bug in version 12.1. I have been doing some testing, comparing 11.3.8 and 12.1 using the same format. Here is the result.

11.3.8 rendered correctly what I wanted for the repeated citation, while 12.1 did not (see attached screen shots).

Screen Shot 01 done with 1138.png (75.29 KiB) Viewed 8368 times

Screen Shot 02 done with 1210.png (84.16 KiB) Viewed 8368 times

The differences are highlighted with colours.

Both version rendered the bibliography correctly. BUT

My first problem:
I wanted the repeated citation to start with the Initial then Author, then Short Title, then page number consulted. (And the Author of all citations should be in small cap).

version 1138 rendered it correctly, while 1210 did not give me small cap for citation, nor the repeated citation. Moreover, in the repeated citation, it did not give me the initial.

My second problem:
which is more related to my inexperience in how to tell the programme to give information correctly. So I would need some help on this.
You can see my 3rd and 4th on the screen shots. They start with the book's title (because the author field is blank), then the editors followed. What I wanted is that the programme shows the name of the editors when the author field is blank. How should I do that? I attach below a screen shot of the command string that I put in:

Screen Shot 03.png (106.28 KiB) Viewed 8368 times

[Jon]

I think you can use conditional formatting for the second problem

{a^e}

means output the authors, and if there are none output the editors.

Jon
Sonny Software

[yeanus]

Nope. It didn't work. I have found a solution, but not a very elegant one. I have created another category of books called edited books. So all book with editors without authors would go there. With the subsequent citation with the command e, s (Names as First). and this solves my problems.

Meanwhile version 12.1 is still unable to produce what 11.3.8 has done. So I think I have to stick to 11.3.8 for the moment until the bug is fixed.

Thanks.

[Jon]

I can't reproduce either of the problems you see, small caps and conditional groups. They work fine here.

I do see the problem with the secondary name output, and that will be fixed in the next update.

If you still have the other two problems when that's out, please contact tech support.

Jon
Sonny Software

[yeanus]

Can you please post the command line with which you used to produce small caps and conditional group? Thanks.

[yeanus]

Oh... by the way, I have another question, which is not relevant to this one. But all I need is a short answer.

I have modified some formats based on existing ones. Now I want to share these modified formats with friends in my university. How can I do that?

I tried to look for the modified formats in the custom formats folder, copied them into a pen drive. Then I transferred them into the custom formats folder in my friend's Mac. The format list does not show the modified formats which I have just pasted into the folder. Why?

Then I tried to add the .fmt extension. This time, they are shown in the formats list. But I could not use them. Why?

Is it because I have tried to copy the formats modified using version 11.3.8, and then transferred into version 12.1? Compatibility issue?
If I transfer to another Mac with the same Bookends version, would it be ok? Or there is another way to "export" the modified formats?

Thanks

[Jon]

Can you please post the command line with which you used to produce small caps and conditional group? Thanks.

The small caps is a popup (which you have set in the picture you set, and I see small caps in the example in your screen snap).

{a^e}

is the Order for conditional formatting.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Jon]

I have modified some formats based on existing ones. Now I want to share these modified formats with friends in my university. How can I do that?

I tried to look for the modified formats in the custom formats folder, copied them into a pen drive. Then I transferred them into the custom formats folder in my friend's Mac. The format list does not show the modified formats which I have just pasted into the folder. Why?

Then I tried to add the .fmt extension. This time, they are shown in the formats list. But I could not use them. Why?

If you do a Unix file transfer you'll lose the file metadata, which is why you need to add .fmt. If you do a Finder copy with a Mac-formatted drive that's not a problem.

As for not usable -- is he running 11.x or 12.x. Any format you touched with 12.x was updated (the database engine) and can't be used with 11.x or earlier. It will work with 12.x on another Mac, though.

Jon
Sonny Software

[yeanus]

Thank you very much for the prompt replies. I have successfully applied the {a^e} command. Now it shows the names of the editors when authors field is blank.

However, it now shows the names of the editors twice, as initially the whole thing was set up to show: Authors, title, editors (if available) etc...

Now, since I have asked Bookends to show editors when authors field is blank, it shows me: Editors, title, editors again (because the field was filled).

What should I do?

The command line I have is the following:

{a^e}, t ~j~(j, v)`,` u2~˚ ed., ~e~ (ed.),~ u3*~ (trad.),~ u, l d

[Jon]

That would be hard to do. It's possible, I suppose, with extensive conditional groups in the Order. But it wouldn't be trivial. I think you're better off creating a new Type if you can't get by with the ones we provide (Book vs. Edited Book).

Jon
Sonny Software

[yeanus]

I thought so. Thank you very much for your info and help. Very useful indeed.

[Jon]

...version 1138 rendered it correctly, while 1210 did not give me small cap for citation...

I think the reason I didn't see this is because I'm using a build of Bookends that fixes some capitalization issues in scanned citations. Look for 12.1.1 soon.

Jon
Sonny Software

[yeanus]

Hi there!

Just downloaded version 1211, unfortunately the problem remains unsolved.
Bookends still makes all surnames of the author field CAPITAL, instead of Small Cap.