Feature Request: Easier and Expanded Logic Toggles

[DrJJWMac]

I would appreciate having easier access to toggle the Multiple Selections between AND / OR. Could this eventually be a separate menu option, for example just to the right of the current GEAR? It would toggle between the two states AND / OR. Eventually, it might also be nice to include other logic operations, such as NOR, NOT, XOR ...

(GEAR) (LOGICS) (CLOUD)

[Jon]

I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but you can change how multiple selections are treated with a right-click in the groups pane.

Jon
Sonny Software

[DrJJWMac]

I remember now the context menu approach. Thank you. I would still appreciate having the logic being toggles by themselves for two reasons. One is to have constant visual feedback on the current state of the toggle. The other is to have an easier effort to toggle the state using one primary click rather than for example requiring the approach with a context click + scroll to an option + scroll again to select from a sub-option + click to select the toggle.

In reconsidering my request on additional logic, the only other one that should be useful is the exclusive or XOR.

AND -- simultaneously in all selected groups
OR -- in any selected group
XOR -- in any selected group but not in the AND group

By specific example, considering groups CLEANED, ETCHED, and COATED

AND -- CLEANED AND ETCHED AND COATED
OR -- CLEANED OR ETCHED OR COATED
XOR -- NOT (CLEANED AND ETCHED AND COATED)

[Jon]

I'll see how the toggle looks. As for XOR, I'm inclined to think it's not very useful in a reference management app. Let's see if anyone else has an opinion on that.

Jon
Sonny Software

[Jon]

Menu toggles are typically used for opposite states, like Show/Hide. The choice between AND and OR isn't that, and frankly I'm not coming up with a good menu pair that is short, meaningful, and clear. The hierarchical menu that shows you the options and checks the one currently looks like the best option. To see the current setting without having to mouse down to it, I can include AND/OR in the menu title itself.

Multiple Selections [AND] ->

and

Multiple Selections [OR] ->


Jon
Sonny Software

[DrJJWMac]

I think of XOR as an effective way to find "outliers" ... Those reports that not containing the full combination of all things currently chosen.

I see the conundrum with toggles. I was thinking however of a pop-menu that shows the current state and allows one to change it, not a toggle button indicating the different state. For example below, the current state is [AND]. The icon (and text) is not a button to switch to the [AND] state, rather it is an indication of the current multiple selection being in the [AND] state.

(GEAR ICON) .... (VENN DIAGRAM ICON) [AND] .......... (CLOUD ICON)

Clicking on the [AND] toggle and switching to the [OR] state gives this below.

(GEAR ICON) .... (VENN DIAGRAM ICON) [OR] .......... (CLOUD ICON)

In essence, I am suggesting that having an equivalent of the three pictures below as indications of the CURRENT state for multiple selections and have the icon picture directly on the menu would be visually more informative and productively more efficient.

Venn.png (47.99 KiB) Viewed 16150 times

[Jon]

There is a very high bar for adding more "stuff" to the UI, and this doesn't rise above it. The AND/OR functionality is already there are is readily accessible (and probably used by at most 5% of users). I've added the AND/OR status to the menu title as I mentioned above, so it will take almost no effort (a right click, no scrolling) to see what the current setting is. I'll think about XOR, but I'm not enthusiastic.

Jon
Sonny Software

[DrJJWMac]

I appreciate your considerations.

[DrJJWMac]

To push back a bit after some further thought ... when I would extrapolate the statement ... As for XOR, I'm inclined to think it's not very useful in a reference management app. ... I am correspondingly hard pressed to understand how this does not also lead one to argue that AND and OR are equally not very useful in a reference management app. Certainly, users should come to see Bookends as a useful tool to review reference content not only individually (e.g. each reference by itself) but also in its broader context across an entire library of collected content. Exactly in that broader context, AND tells us when content is shared commonly in all the selected groups, OR tells use when content exists in all selected groups, and XOR tells us when content is unique to each selected group in its own standing.

I too am now curious to hear other opinions (rather than being what appears to be the single, perhaps desperately loud sounding voice).

[Jon]

I think that AND and OR are simple concepts that everyone uses and don't require a real knowledge of boolean logic. So I think they (especially OR) are used intuitively. XOR, on the other hand, is a boolean expression that I suspect few know, and is likely to be used only by those deeply invested in using Bookends as an analytical tool (as I know you do). I'm not saying it's useless, but I do think it would be rarely used (again, I understand you might).

Bookends group searches have many more variations than most apps (search for text, colors, file Finder tags, spotlight, arbitrary SQL, etc.). And the complexity is multiplied when one allows simultaneous and arbitrary selection of different groups, folders, and smart folders from any levels in the folder/subfolder/group hierarchy and then apply additional logic to the results. Adding XOR is far from trivial, and mucking about in complex code is a great way to introduce bugs. Since XOR is something I personally see little use for, I would not want to spend a lot of time trying to implement it unless users felt there was a real need.

I rarely say never (and when I have, sometimes I change my mind as things change). I'm not shutting the door on this, but like you I would like to know if others would find XOR a useful addition or not.

Jon
Sonny Software