Bookends and Pages 2

Post by **Jon** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:52 pm

Hi Fenton,

But you're not telling it like "it" is, you're telling us about your experience in chemistry. Elsevier (which is a behemoth) owns many of the major biomedical research journals. I'm not familiar with any that group references in bibliographies (you possibly can point to some, but we include 150 or so formats with Bookends that cover a lot of ground, and few use this kind of citation).

As for NIH R01's, that's not true, either (can't speak about NSF).

This NIH web site has links to PHS 398 forms: http://grants.nih.gov/grants/funding/phs398/phs398.html

and links to a "well written" annotated R01 example:

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/ncn/grants/app/app.pdf

Note the references, which are not grouped.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying some specialties/journals don't use grouped references, but please don't generalize to the biomedical literature, of which I have a great deal of knowledge.

Jon
Sonny Software

Post by **Jon** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:17 pm

But Fenton, I do have a question for you. How does JACS handle citations to one paper that appear in more than one place in the article? In other words, if you cite

Smith et al., 2005, JACS...

twice, the first time in a group with others, the second time by himself, does the bibliography contain two entries with this paper? Or is the paper broken out and cited in the manuscript independently, the first time as, say, 1-2, and the second time as just 2?

This determines to a great extent how difficult grouping citations would be...

Jon
Sonny Software

Chemist · Post by **Chemist** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:10 pm

Jon wrote:But Fenton, I do have a question for you. How does JACS handle citations to one paper that appear in more than one place in the article? In other words, if you cite

Smith et al., 2005, JACS...

twice, the first time in a group with others, the second time by himself, does the bibliography contain two entries with this paper? Or is the paper broken out and cited in the manuscript independently, the first time as, say, 1-2, and the second time as just 2?

This determines to a great extent how difficult grouping citations would be...

Jon
Sonny Software

Hi Jon- it works according to the second scenario that you describe. Repeating a citation -even under the circumstance that you asked about- would be a no-no. Generally one finds these grouped bibliographies at the beginning of an article...in the introduction section.

Fenton

Post by **Jon** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:52 pm

Thank you.

Jon
Sonny Software

mihnat · Post by **mihnat** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:57 pm

Back to Pages 2 and BE 9.0. Is there any way around this RTF issue (i.e., figures are lost in Pages) raised on the previous page or a way to make these two Mac programs more compatible without cracking some crazy code from Mac? I hate Word, Mellel is OK but the newer Pages is easier to deal with on the whole for grants and papers. It just stinks that I have to convert back to Word and deal with that piece of !$^@$ just to scan for references with BE. Then Word re-converts figures and margins and headers and footers so it takes me an hour to re-format it back to what it was...Thanks so much Jon for all you do!

:O)
Mike

Post by **Jon** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:01 pm

Hi mihnat,

I'm afraid that no, there is no easy solution for dealing with Pages. FWIW, I have had an email exchange with someone at Apple about this, and entered a "bug report" about Pages concerning its inability to play nice with other applications. I encourage everyone else who cares about this to email Apple with this request.

Jon
Sonny Software

Edwin Sanchez · Post by **Edwin Sanchez** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:54 pm

Jon, Will contact Apple again but what exactly do you want us to say? What does BE need from Pages in order to interface properly? Scripting?

Eddie

Post by **Jon** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:20 pm

Ideally, Pages would adopt an API that would let it communicate with other apps (like Mellel does). This makes the file format irrelevant.

Jon
Sonny Software

drzog · Post by **drzog** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:55 am

ok so lets swamp apple with 'bug reports'. It makes me a little nervous writing a paper that gets scanned to rtf etc, is it 100% accurate on the reference scans?

Post by **Jon** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:31 am

Scanning RTF is perfectly fine. And that brings up another request for Apple: at the very least, save images to the RTF file. I don't know why they don't do that now -- every other word processor does.

Jon
Sonny Software

drzog · Post by **drzog** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:46 am

so when i set processor to pages in the prefs, the creator changes to 'page'. is that ok. any other changes required.

Post by **Jon** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:16 am

No, that's all. If you use Copy Citation with Pages you'll switch to Pages but have to do the Paste manually. When you're ready, save the Pages document as RTF and scan that from within Bookends.

Jon
Sonny Software

mihnat · Post by **mihnat** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:36 pm

Thanks Jon! I just posted my concerns with Pages (for what it is worth). I think that the folks fired from working on Word for not being consumer-friendly enough are now designing Pages.

drzog · Post by **drzog** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:34 am

pages will save to rtfd if there are graphics, but rtf if not, BUT anyway text inside graphics rtfd is unable to be scanned by BE, (presumed pages fault) so u have to insert it into a graphic after a scan/conversion back to pages, works ok, perhaps duplicate the pages file so u can just cut and paste images/text boxes etc

and even thoo u can export graphics to rtfd, graphics dont retain any order either so their order is all jumbled after rtfd conversion looks like a dogs breakfast

mihnat · Post by **mihnat** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:39 am

Good thought! I will try that next time. One of the main reasons I like Pages is because it allows for easi(er) manipulation of graphics. I can always make the graphics in one file then, after referencing, place them back into the Pages document. Conversely, Pages could get its crap together to allow programs like this one to smoothly interface.

Just for perspective in case any of us want to jump ship - since our library here (I work for a university) got a site license for Endnote last year, I e-mailed them when Pages was in its first iteration to see WHEN they planned to come out with an add-in for Pages. Their reply, although not answering my question, was only two letters and told me all that I needed to know: â€œNO.â€