Same source, different pages

Svatopluk · Post by **Svatopluk** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:19 am

Dear Bookends Wisdom,

I have been trying out the Mellel/Bookends combo in the hopes of migrating away from the Word/Endnote combo. There are a few things that I'm having trouble with.

1. With Czech-language titles not all words are capitalised, but even after selecting 'as entered' in the Formats Manager they appear with caps after scanning.

2. In Endnote there is a handy fuction where you edit a citation to add or change page numbers or page range for an individual citation from within the document. The only way I can seem to do this in Bookends is by double-clicking on the citation in Mellen and typing the numbers in manually. I'm sure there is another way that I am missing here. This way I can cite the same source, but with different pages.

That will do for now. Many thanks.

Svate

Post by **Jon** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:10 am

Hi,

For the first -- make sure you have set "as entered" for every reference Type (that is, it can be set differently for Journal Article, Book, Book Chapter, etc.).

For the second -- Mellel works the same as Word (you edit in the document), but because in Mellel citations are "objects", you have to double-click to open them first, then add the page range). In case you missed it, Bookends also supports cited pages (use the @ sign).

Jon
Sonny Software

Svatopluk · Post by **Svatopluk** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:15 am

Thanks for that, I'll give the page-numbers a try. Will it also use the corresponding page formats (for example, the page-numbering systems in MLA or Chicago that correspond to each type, such as book, journal, etc.)?

As for the capitalisation, it appears 'as entered' in the bibliography, but the footnote has all caps. I'm sure I've missed something here...

Thanks again,

S.

Svatopluk · Post by **Svatopluk** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:19 am

Jon, while I have your attention. What is the advantage in Bookends over Endnote regarding the latters 'cite-while-you-write' feature. I find that it is a nice feature in Endnote (to always be able to see the final output formatting of references), but maybe there are disadvantages/advantages that I haven't thought of.

Svate

Post by **Jon** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:23 am

Svatopluk wrote:Thanks for that, I'll give the page-numbers a try.

So you find the right thing in the User Guide -- it's called Cited Pages.

Will it also use the corresponding page formats (for example, the page-numbering systems in MLA or Chicago that correspond to each type, such as book, journal, etc.)?

Yes, if the Cited Pages field in the format is filled out correctly.

As for the capitalisation, it appears 'as entered' in the bibliography, but the footnote has all caps. I'm sure I've missed something here...

If you are using a custion citation format (which I gather you are, if the footnotes are customized, as opposed to numbers or author-dates), you have to change the case in that (the footnote) format as well.

Post by **Jon** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:25 am

Svatopluk wrote:What is the advantage in Bookends over Endnote regarding the latters 'cite-while-you-write' feature. I find that it is a nice feature in Endnote (to always be able to see the final output formatting of references), but maybe there are disadvantages/advantages that I haven't thought of.

I'll let others give you their perspective on this. In Word, CWYW is the most problematic aspect of the symbiosis with EN. It's slow and often causes problems (the most common solution to EN/Word problems I see is to turn off CWYW). Having said that, it's possible to do right, and if you are using Mellel you should keep an eye on future updates.

Jon
Sonny Software

Svatopluk · Post by **Svatopluk** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:34 am

Thanks for these bits of advice. Other scholars here in the UK have mentioned both your Bookends and Mellel to me. I've use the Word/EN combo for years, but to be honest, I'm not in love with either. Furthermore, both are getting more bloated and expensive. Your product (and Mellel too) have good solid Mac 'feel' about them; and better still, have good attitude toward working solutions for scholars.

Back to my first query. The references that I am experimenting with in Bookends were imported via XML from EN. Might that be a source of caps issue?

Svate

Svatopluk · Post by **Svatopluk** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:41 am

Sorry for the double post; I tried creating a new reference in Bookends using the exisitng formats (though selecting 'as entered') and they still come out with caps in foonotes, but fine in the bibliography.

Any ideas?

Many thanks again.

Post by **Jon** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:50 am

Yes, as I said, you have to edit the footnote format (the one called from the bibliography, or main, format) to tell it to format titles "as entered". You didn't say what format you are using. But if it is, for example, APA, then you have to edit the APA Citations format...

Jon
Sonny Software

Svatopluk · Post by **Svatopluk** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:54 am

Thanks Jon. I'm using Chicago 15th A and I edited all the existing formats for titles of all sorts to be 'as entered'. This succeeds to a degree (they are printed thus in the bibliography) but caps are added in the footnotes.

Post by **Jon** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:14 am

I think you're not understanding me. If you are using Chicago 15th A, you need to edit the Chcago 15th A Footnotes format. Did you do that?

Jon
Sonny Software

Svatopluk · Post by **Svatopluk** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:57 am

Is this the one? menu: Biblio>Formats Manager>Chicago 15th A>Edit

That's what I've done. Maybe there is something else...

danzac · Post by **danzac** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:07 pm

Jon wrote:Having said that, it's possible to do right, and if you are using Mellel you should keep an eye on future updates.

Jon
Sonny Software

I sure hope this is going to change. I really would like to see WYSIWYG citations in Mellel. The final scanning of papers always change my formatting. I change towards this will be great, and hopefully eliminate the need for a final scan at all!

Post by **Jon** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:10 pm

Svatopluk wrote:Is this the one? menu: Biblio>Formats Manager>Chicago 15th A>Edit

No. It's

Biblio -> Formats Manager -> Chicago 15th A Footnotes -> Edit

Jon
Sonny Software

Svatopluk · Post by **Svatopluk** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:16 pm

Bingo! Thanks Jon.