Bookends 10 window layout-- bring back the keywords field

[Jon]

I do appreciate all the feedback everyone has given. This is certainly a lively thread!

In response to dhayton, Shift-Command-D opens the reference drawer.

Jon
Sonny Software

[danzac]

I do appreciate all the feedback everyone has given. This is certainly a lively thread!

In response to dhayton, Shift-Command-D opens the reference drawer.

Jon
Sonny Software

Is the option also available anywhere in the menus?

[tharpold]

My 2¢ regarding the keywords field:

To me and for my interaction with Bookends, it is extremely important that the keywords field be on the same "page" as the notes or abstract fields. I add my entries by hand (while I may be a luddite, the fact is that many of my references aren't available for download and don't come with ready made "abstracts")...

It is *extremely* inconvenient for me to switch between two pages (even with the command-2 shortcut) to fill in the keywords:
Whereas I used to enter the keywords while I looked at the abstract, now, after typing the abstract, I have either to write down the various keywords, to copy-and-paste them, or to perform some other intermediate step, hit cmd-2, enter the keywords, and hit cmd-2 to look again at the abstract to make sure I have the relevant keywords.

Hardly a Luddite: if you work, as I do, in a literary field, online sources for citations that support downloading into a database like BE *very* seldom have abstracts for the ready to also download. Moreover, I tend to use BE as a tool to record my own, sometimes errant, reading: a journal essay there, a book or book chapter here, which items I rarely discover through targeted database query that keywords and abstracts the text. So I have entered probably 98% (I do not exaggerate) of the 6500 items in my current BE database by hand, and keyworded them by hand also.

I also think that having Keywords on the same tab (the "Main" tab) as the primary descriptor fields for a text (author, editors, etc.) is a must-have; the new arrangement of the fields, for its small benefits in other areas, has come at a big loss in usability for me in its present form.

"Notes" represent for me (at best) a second-level task supported by BE. I rarely use that field, except for comments on provenance and format (the book is from this collection, in this size and page count, a foreword by this person, etc.) Whereas keywords are primary data I use for filtering/tagging entries.

I suspect that Jon put the Notes field on the Main tab to visually balance the layout of the tab (users typically need scrolling, multi-line fields for Abstract and Notes, perhaps not for Keywords), but there's no reason why the Keywords field can't be multi-lined as well (I separate my keywords with return chars and often have five or six in the field).

If I had my druthers, I would opt for Keywords on the left at the bottom of the tab, Abstract as the right -- sort of a left-right descending order of importance and ascending level of narrative detail sort of thing.

TH

[dhayton]

I do appreciate all the feedback everyone has given. This is certainly a lively thread!

In response to dhayton, Shift-Command-D opens the reference drawer.

Jon
Sonny Software

Jon,

thanks for this.

I've spent some time testing BE 10 and still miss the keywords on the main tab. Like tharpold, I enter my reading of an essay/book/article/etc into the abstract field and use the keywords for tagging and sorting my records. The Notes field, again much like tharpold, holds the provenance of items I've acquired, the codicological description of a book/manuscript, or the titles of other texts bound in the same codex (or on the same microfilm). While this is essential, when needed, the vast majority of my records are for modern articles, essays and books. For these, the notes field is blank.

As I said in a previous post, if there were some way to customize the layout, replacing the Notes field with the Keywords, I would be delighted. My Keywords often include authors, subject words, key terms from *my* abstract, relevant names from the article/book/essay/etc, and project terms (where the record fits into my own research). These are then used with the smart groups to compile working bibliographies. For these reasons, the Keywords is much more important to me than the Notes field.

As for relegating the Keywords to the drawer, I would have to try it to decide. It would be better than having the Keywords on a separate tab (though less convenient than having them in an always-visible field on the main page.

Just my further thoughts.

Best,
Darin

[Waystone]

Another two cents dropped into the mix:

1) Loving the new version! It's sleeker, the ability to view PDFs directly is glorious, and the toggle buttons at the bottom of the window add a whole lot of flexibility.

2) Keywords. I understand why they moved, but for me, it's inconvenient. Like some of the other posters I enter my references primarily by hand, keywords included - and the keywords are my own, not the author-specified ones, so even if I do shift to download I'll be editing them just as much. I like the way the separate tab gives me more room to work, but without keywords on the main page I'm finding that my accuracy in keywording the articles has gone way down - which in turn, messes with the usefulness of the database as a whole, since my smart lists draw heavily on my keywords, and my bibliographies on my smart lists. You get the idea.

As it currently stands, I've resorted to entering keywords into a separate textedit document while I have the main window open for reference, then cutting and pasting in. Which seems a pity, given the overall quality of Bookends.

For me, the perfect solution would be to replace the 'notes' section on the main page with keywords. It's probably personal (I'm sure there are just as many users who would take notes over keywords any day), but tabbing over to put in my notes just doesn't bother me. This would let the window keep its balance (and it sure looks nice in this version), but give me back my beloved keywords

[knapp97202]

My additional two cents:

Jon says "One conceivable option I'm toying with would allow the user to specify what goes in the second tab: Keywords, Notes, or Abstract." He's also proposed moving Keywords to the drawer.

Either option would be fine with me; like others on this thread, I use the Keywords field a lot, so would like it to appear in an enterable way by default.

And like others, I need to say again, "Great Work!" This upgrade is terrific.

[gattuso]

I support previous requests to move the keyword field where it was. It is an inconvenience to move to a different tab (and not have access to the abstract) when typing keywords in.

It does not matter to me whether this means to replace the Notes field. Putting keywords in the drawer would be better than the current location but not as good as the main window.

Jean-Pierre Gattuso

[NickB]

Jon, you're probably sick of this thread and have made your views clear, but could the keywords field not replace user1 translation edition and user4?

[Jon]

I have a pretty good sense of the split amongst our users now, and I'm going to make a poll in a few days that lists the options I think are the most appropriate (that isn't one of them). I'm sure we'll come up with a solution that please most people (never everyone, of course).

Jon
Sonny Software

[jblander]

Do you mean to have three fields at the bottom of the main tab, with two splitters, as in Keywords: Notes : Abstract?

Ack! I was waiting until I had some free time to reply to this, but it seems the hour of reckoning is nigh.

Jon, I don't see a directly reply to your comment above, but what you say would be highly preferred by me. Since the main tab does have nice symmetry, perhaps you could deliver the app with just two of the three fields open on the main tab, but allow for reconfiguration (via a preference, perhaps) to add the third field, or deliver it with all three, and make each fully re-sizable just as they are now, to the extent (again, as is the case currently) that one can completely close one of the fields by dragging the dimple to the edge of the window. Thus one can have just Abstract or Notes or Keywords, or two of the three, or all three. And so each person can ruin the symmetry of the window or not - which is really no different than now....but with the ability to have all three fields showing. Of course, one's configuration should be remembered/saved so it sticks when opening that window/app again.

I have the advantage of downloading nearly all of my references from online databases - libraries via Z39.50 or Philosophers Index. That process yields lots of keywords imported automatically, and some add'l info that I regularly cut and paste in Notes right away. As a result, I like to work with both fields just after entry of the record, because I want to review and manually adjust the kw and notes fields while I review my new records. I also like to note (in "Notes", of course) for many books or articles which pages I want to focus on right away, based on references to that article/book in another place. I like to just "arrow" through the new references, and changing tabs and hopping around for the input of these fields can get tedious.

I quite agree with your comments about the redundancy of viewing notes (and even keywords). But having all of the three fields available in one place for initial record entry/review is extremely helpful (for me).

One other note about keywords and notes tabs (if they remain). It would be nice if basic record information (author/title/book/editor/journal) were placed in a fixed/uneditable location just above the actual "keywords" and "notes" fields, so one knows which record one is looking at. With that information, one can "arrow" through a number of records without switching back to the main info tab each time to know what they are the keywords or notes for, making these more useful as standalone tabs.

[NickB]

having all of the three fields available in one place for initial record entry/review is extremely helpful (for me)

For me too, I can/could page through the references using the back/forward buttons to review the keywords for each. This is even more useful given that the list view only shows the first keyword for each ref.

[ccg]

Jon,

Thanks for taking the feedback seriously -- I look forward to the poll. I've lived with BE 10 for about a week now, and in general I love it. But for the way I use Bookends, the new location of the keywords field is a big drag, for reasons others have already articulated.

Here's a new reason: when I tab over to the keywords field (command-2), enter some text, tab back to the main screen (command-1), and then try to close the record window (command-W), Bookends closes the main list view window instead -- and leaves the record open.

Command-W seems to work properly (i.e., close the record view) if I do not enter text in the keywords field or if I don't tab back to the main screen before trying to close the window.

Is anyone else seeing this behavior?

[Jon]

I see it. I'll fix it.

Jon
Sonny Software

[ozean]

Jon has opened a poll on this issue http://www.sonnysoftware.com/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=1659