Pages '08

[JaymanKC]

Any comments on whether the latest version of Pages (from the iWork '08 suite) will work better with Bookends? From a very casual glance, it looks as if it does have some Applescript support. It would be great to be able to scan a native Pages file, rather than an rtf or doc copy. This is particularly helpful for Pages files with lots of tables and images (e.g. grant applications).

[kga1978]

This one is also extremely high on my wishlist..... Is it/will it be possible Jon? Or do we have to go kick some butt at Apple....!?!

[Jon]

Ahem, a swift kick couldn't hurt...

The next Bookends update will let you scan rtfd files exported from Pages 08, which allows you to work with documents that have graphics (although things like comments and track changes won't survive the round trip through rtfd).

To sum up the situation, you can set Pages 08 as your default word processor in Bookends and citations will be inserted automatically. To scan, you export as rtf (which will be an rtfd if there are graphics), scan the file with Bookends, after which Bookends will open it again in Pages 08. It's certainly not as nice as scanning Mellel or Word docs, but as of the next Bookends update I hope it is at least serviceable for many.

Jon
Sonny Software

[JaymanKC]

Thanks for the note Jon. To test your plan for scanning rtfd files generated from a Pages document, I generated an rtfd file of an existing Pages file with lots of figures. When I then open the rtfd copy with Pages, the images are scattered all over the place, and the tables are a wreck. The biggest reason I use Pages is its excellent page layout capabilities. Without being able to keep the placement of the images and tables intact, I am not sure how tenable of a solution that rtfd exporting will be.

Currently, I often export Pages files into Word format, then do the bibliography in Bookends. The export to doc will generally keep the tables and image boxes intact. Likely I will keep with this admittedly ack-basswards solution if scanning of native Pages files is not feasible.

Have you looked into whether the new Pages has increased capabilities for scanning with Bookends?

[dspedersen]

This one is also extremely high on my wishlist.....

It's on top of mine. It's really a shame that the second to none, ultimate and superior bibliography program on Mac isn't working better together with far the best layout/text program on Mac, Pages. I know that it hasn't been feasible with the previous Pages 06 but keep hoping and dreaming that this feature will actually find its way into a coming release/update of BE.

Regards,
Dan

[Jon]

I tried scanning an rtfd file made with Pages '08 and it worked pretty well. Graphic placement is not preserved if you wrap words around it, which may be what you did. If the graphics exist in their own line it seemed to work much better. So for simpler Pages docs scanning rtfd will work reasonably well, but not for complex ones.

Jon
Sonny Software

[kodiak71]

I agree with JaymanKC in that BE and Pages '08 will somehow be better integrated. My grant applications always include Tables and Figures with text wrapped around, etc. etc. I have yet to try the JaymanKC method of Pages -> export to Word -> scan with BE -> import to Pages....

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[AsafKeller]

I just converted my entire lab to Pages (now that it has a functional Track Changes feature), and therefore would very much appreciate a better integration with BE (one that maintains figure wrap-arounds, etc).

[kga1978]

I actually think the problem lies with Pages and Apple and not Jon...... As far as I know Pages isn't very scriptable (or scriptable at all?), and so there is no way that BE can work with it.

I guess we should maybe give Apple a gentle 'kick' to make them consider this option - I would love to use Pages instead of say Mellel (you can wrap around figures, tables, etc) or Word (well - reason being obvious!), but it simply isn't possible without a firm integration with BE .

Shame on you Apple - open up your programs a bit more!

[matthias]

As far as I know Pages isn't very scriptable (or scriptable at all?), and so there is no way that BE can work with it.

Pages 08 is scriptable; as for other versions I don't know. But I am still learning Apple Script, so it will be interesting to hear what Jon thinks as to its possible interaction with Bookends.

Matthias

[Jon]

It is scriptable, but that's not enough. It really needs an API. Failing that, if it handled RTFD better that would be adequate. Pages '08 is a step forward, though, as it at least reads images back in when it opens an RTFD file (older Pages versions would just read in the text).

Jon
Sonny Software

[dspedersen]

So we can't expect better BE-Pages integration in a foreseeable future, it seems. I know it's due to the limited scriptability of Pages so I guess we'll just have to deal with inventive detours for a while yet, to come around this problem.

[Jon]

The just-released Bookends 10.0.2 reads rtfd files exported from Pages '08, so that's now in the foreseeable past. :-) I really can't say what opportunities may present itself to improve on that. Certainly lobbying Apple can't hurt.

Jon
Sonny Software

[ablaze]

The just-released Bookends 10.0.2 reads rtfd files exported from Pages '08, so that's now in the foreseeable past. I really can't say what opportunities may present itself to improve on that. Certainly lobbying Apple can't hurt.

If I understand correctly, Word and Mellel offer some kind of API for third party developers that want to integrate bibliography software?! On the other hand, Nisus and Apple don't, right?

And doing it using AppleScript will be too much work that might get obsolete the day Apple (or Nisus) releases a version of Pages (or NWE(P)) that offer the API?!

[Jon]

Partly correct. Word and Mellel have an API. Nisus doesn't, but has macro capabilities that partially compensate. Pages has nothing (AS support is not very useful for scanning).

Jon
Sonny Software